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Dev Diary #23: Empires & Ashes - Reavers

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We can't make up our minds this is different segments of the fanbase. Some want full customization and others want AOW 3.


Man this is massively disappointing. the culture was the thing I looked forward to the most and we got this. I really hope the tier 2 tome is good because that is apparently the entirety of dreadnought I get to experience unless mods. This kills a lot of enthusiasm for the next dlc too that is entirely focused on the culture and they seem to have pivoted to dictating your playstyle now
 
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I am disappointed in the culture others aren't thats not hard to understand.

I will also point out that edmund portsmith, one of the most famous dreadnoughts, is a founder of the torchbearers which screams order. But dreadnoughts should only be tied fully to materium. The one affinity that makes the least sense is nature but meh. The new mechanic should have been a new chaos trait.

Also we have had 6 tomes since launch and 4 are tied to chaos and noe to astral. was hoping to see a better mix
 
Blanch Warren said:
the dreadnaught empire was at war with everything around it, there's nothing innacurate thematically about them starting with one less stone
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So… because the commonwealth was a bunch of warmongers, that means ALL gun-toting cultures are warmongers? That’s a load of baloney. (Especially considering we’re not necessarily in Athla anymore.)

Plus, last I checked Edward Portsmith’s character development in AOW 3 made him recognize the value of diplomacy before war.
 
I think the idea of having more robust mechanics to culture is a good.
I never thought barbarian culture for example had an interesting mechanic with just the outpost + alacrity, that culture is carried by their units and combat play style alone imo.

I think if we ever try to elevate the old cultures to how good the reaver one is looking using war spoils for conquest/destruction or subjugation/alliance, we could use the High culture as baseline.

High culture has an engaging mechanic tied to a core feature in empire building that let you be modular, for example, if we ever tried to hit this sweet spot with cultures we already have, dark could have the choice to go full negative happiness or full positive happiness for different effects, or barbarians using outposts for war (with alacrity) or extra resources with a new option.

In summary, i don't think reaver design is going far, i think we need more reavers instead.
 
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Maybe in the future they will add a trophy resource that can only be used for diplomatic purposes but for everyone. and as a special feature, pirates will be left with the recruitment of new troops for this resource. then the uniqueness will be preserved, and the wolves are safe, and the sheep are well-fed :)
But in general, let's wait for the update and then we'll know exactly what's what. After all, a new culture has now been introduced. We don’t yet know what else will be new :) maybe everything that is discussed here is already there :)
 
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DragonZee said:
Initially the culture system was criticized for lack of distingusing features and samey-ness. When they actually add a culture with focus on combat now it's bad cus you can't play them differently. You can't eat a cookie and have a cookie. Like it was mentioned, "Revaers" is a concept (it screams conquistadors), and "technology focus" can be aquired through tomes.
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People may criticize faction editor or praise it - but fact that AoW4 now has a faction editor and the new content doesn't work well with it.
Like it was mentioned, "Revaers" is a concept (it screams conquistadors), and "technology focus" can be aquired through tomes.
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Culture is gunner is concept. War spoils is concept.
Rigidly connect them to create a fraction of conquistadors is decision.
Add it in AoW4 aaking the new content partly incompatible with other content of faction editor, which is presented as one of features of the game, is mistake.
Also there is simply no way for developers to get everything right from the start. If they find culture uniqueness even more of a focus, they might do it down the line... rehauls are planned as part of the roadmap.
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Totally agree.
It why devs must have our feedback.
 
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But you still have the full arsenal of cultural traits, affinities, and tomes to flesh out a more diplomatic (or other) focused reaver race. It's not like you are bound to attack everyone. You can still have wizard stones to communicate, you just need some extra investment. That's the price for being an effective war machine. You can have reavers with skeletons, or animals, or zeal.

I am happy with the reavers, and with war spoils mechanic tied to the culture. The last thing we need is another resource to manage for all playstyles. If it was generic, it would force everyone to use it. Now it is only necessary if one chooses this specific culture (similar with astral echoes, or souls).
 
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Cybersbe said:
So… because the commonwealth was a bunch of warmongers, that means ALL gun-toting cultures are warmongers? That’s a load of baloney. (Especially considering we’re not necessarily in Athla anymore.)

Plus, last I checked Edward Portsmith’s character development in AOW 3 made him recognize the value of diplomacy before war.
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the Finnish are not but that might be because they have Russia next door. Request Finnish DLC.

Also, Edward wanted to preserve the empire, but he was AWOL.
 
Cabiell said:
I am happy with the reavers, and with war spoils mechanic tied to the culture. The last thing we need is another resource to manage for all playstyles. If it was generic, it would force everyone to use it. Now it is only necessary if one chooses this specific culture (similar with astral echoes, or souls).
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Souls aren't culture-specific. They're unlocked via tomes. I'd be perfectly happy if war spoils and the related mechanics (-1 whispering stone, alternate diplomacy mechanics) were also tied to tomes in a similar way, or if they were part of a society trait like Chosen Destroyers and the way that impacts diplomacy.

Also, some people were asking for more uniqueness in the cultures, but not everyone was, so to act like we all complained and we're now all dissatisfied with what we all asked for isn't true. Some of us were happy with the way cultures worked, or just wanted more culture units - which mods have added. The Reavers change the way you play the game much more dramatically than anyone else, and it's going to make the people who didn't want that unhappy.
 
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You'll be able to play peaceful reavers still, or as peaceful as a wargame will let you be anyway. Don't sweat just because you have to start with one chaos affinity. The culture doesn't even affect your starting alignment.
 
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Guilu said:
You'll be able to play peaceful reavers still, or as peaceful as a wargame will let you be anyway. Don't sweat just because you have to start with one chaos affinity. The culture doesn't even affect your starting alignment.
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it's not the affinity people are complaining about, it's the fact that Reaver diplomacy systems happen at a deficit due to the lack of a starting whispering stone.
 
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Kitschy said:
Dragon tomes are chaos + Tome of Dreadnought will be one too (most likely) what is the 4th tome?
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ah my bad I thought the tier 4 tome was chaos but it is dark. Still odd we have no astral unless tome of dreadnought.

For those saying just play peaceful reavers the penalties are severe. I can play evil High culture and make it work and play good dark and there are benefits. That is fine by me. I can conquer people as high and turn them into productive vassals and as dark keep enemy ai around to siphon knowledge and resources from their vassals. That is variation. But for reavers war spoils are the foundation of the culture and you have to kill free cities and Ai troops to make it work. Your normal diplomatic channels are also severely crippled with no nearby free city and greatly weakened free city diplomacy. You HAVE to fight or all your unique cultural mechanics break down. Which is too bad because a ton of the dreadnought units are locked into reavers. I know a ton of people wanted to make the empire from Warhammer in here but they can't because that is an order faction and reavers have the greatest anti-synergy I have ever seen in this game with an affinity to order. It shocks me the dreadnought culture has great synergy with nature and horrible synergy with order.

cultures to me are races from age of wonders 3 they give me the core units of my armies and some building swaps but I can take them to play anything. I would want more dynamic form traits and society traits.
 
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