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Crises and Great Wars

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Victoria 2 17560 After Action Reports (AAR)
Christian D

Christian D

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Jul 17, 2004
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In my game, I'm seeing that even if I back the liberation of a country from a secondary power, if no other great power opposes me, the crisis ends with status quo.

Is this a bug? It seems that it's only possible to liberate countries if a great power first opposes you then gives in, either through diplomacy or war.

Also, how exactly do Great Wars work? I did some searching but I found what seems to be an outdated guide detailing a series of events asking each GP to join the war ( which I haven't seen in HoD ).
 
Great Wars are unlocked sometime around 1890 (start of the second half of the game). Any war which includes at least two Great Powers on each side (so most crisis wars) automatically becomes a Great War. During a Great War goals have a much lower infamy cost than normal. I don't know all the numbers off the top of my head, but it's 3.4 for acquire state and 3.3 for place in the sun. So you can get 3 states or colonies for the price of one. Probably around 1/3rd infamy cost for all goals if I had to guess.

Everyone in the war can also make separate peace deals so you can slap on way more than 100 war score worth of goals if you use them against different targets and then peace each one separately. Your AI allies can and will do this sort of thing too so you see an insane amount of goals in Great Wars.
 
Also when the Great War ends the losing side gets stuck with 'Great War Capitulation' which is like a Cut Down to Size only even worse. And they have to pay the winning side huge sums of money for the next few years.

Late game I can finance my entire economy off Great War reparations and not even bother with taxes. =P
 
blaidd said:
Great Wars are unlocked sometime around 1890 (start of the second half of the game). Any war which includes at least two Great Powers on each side (so most crisis wars) automatically becomes a Great War. During a Great War goals have a much lower infamy cost than normal. I don't know all the numbers off the top of my head, but it's 3.4 for acquire state and 3.3 for place in the sun. So you can get 3 states or colonies for the price of one. Probably around 1/3rd infamy cost for all goals if I had to guess.

Everyone in the war can also make separate peace deals so you can slap on way more than 100 war score worth of goals if you use them against different targets and then peace each one separately. Your AI allies can and will do this sort of thing too so you see an insane amount of goals in Great Wars.
Click to expand...

How does that work with the ticking warscore system? Say you add a wargoal to acquire a small easily conquerable island region, that wouldn't eventually tick to 100% and let you enforce the great war penalty on your opponent, would it?
 
Christian D said:
How does that work with the ticking warscore system? Say you add a wargoal to acquire a small easily conquerable island region, that wouldn't eventually tick to 100% and let you enforce the great war penalty on your opponent, would it?
Click to expand...

In a war with multiple war goals, ticking war score will never rise above the value of the war goal in question. So if a colonial conquest war goal takes 9% war score, the ticking war score for holding it will never be more than 9%. (I think it can go above 9% if you have no other war goals, though.)

You can use ticking war score to get score from a bunch of easily conquerable places...but you couldn't enforce those goals and your other goal as well, of course, so you take the prestige hit and possibly infamy from adding the war goals. So exploits are fairly limited.
 
Kimberly said:
In a war with multiple war goals, ticking war score will never rise above the value of the war goal in question. So if a colonial conquest war goal takes 9% war score, the ticking war score for holding it will never be more than 9%. (I think it can go above 9% if you have no other war goals, though.)

You can use ticking war score to get score from a bunch of easily conquerable places...but you couldn't enforce those goals and your other goal as well, of course, so you take the prestige hit and possibly infamy from adding the war goals. So exploits are fairly limited.
Click to expand...

Thanks. One more question - is the jingoism requirement for adding wargoals waived in a Great War?
 
Christian D said:
In my game, I'm seeing that even if I back the liberation of a country from a secondary power, if no other great power opposes me, the crisis ends with status quo.

Is this a bug? It seems that it's only possible to liberate countries if a great power first opposes you then gives in, either through diplomacy or war.
Click to expand...

No this is not a bug. Paradox has recognized that this is an odd mechanic. But I have no impression of whether or not they want to change this in the future.

I dearly hope they do, but who truly knows the divine will of Paradox.

There is another tread further down dealing with this issue, where you can see that some people actually support the current version of the Crisis mechanic.
 
Christian D said:
How does that work with the ticking warscore system? Say you add a wargoal to acquire a small easily conquerable island region, that wouldn't eventually tick to 100% and let you enforce the great war penalty on your opponent, would it?
Click to expand...

In addition to what Kimberly said, the ticking war score is usually VERY small. If your war lasts several years then it will tick up to the amount you need for that particular goal and stop, but in a Great War there is a lot of stuff going on. There are going to be battles, blockades, occupations. You won't be just sitting around watching your score tick up unless you've already won. And if you aren't definitively winning the war via battles, the ticking war score isn't going to amount to enough to help you win.
 
blaidd said:
In addition to what Kimberly said, the ticking war score is usually VERY small. If your war lasts several years then it will tick up to the amount you need for that particular goal and stop, but in a Great War there is a lot of stuff going on. There are going to be battles, blockades, occupations. You won't be just sitting around watching your score tick up unless you've already won. And if you aren't definitively winning the war via battles, the ticking war score isn't going to amount to enough to help you win.
Click to expand...

This is true. Ticking war score helps when you're fighting a war with limited options. If you're the United States fighting the UK for a piece of Canada, for example, occupying all of Canada doesn't give you much in the way of war score. What's more, the UK's huge military score will stop them from surrendering quickly. And you need significant naval power to invade the British Isles, which European powers have a somewhat easier time with. This is where ticking war score is your friend; in addition to battle score, it will eventually get your score high enough for the UK to call it quits.
 
I think the Great War mechanic is something you really need to be aware of an ready to take advantage off. The ability to grow at the expense of your rivals is awesome. My last game France lost nearly a third of France proper amongst me and my allies and that was just one peace against one participant.
 
Can you actually add any wargoals during a great war, or is the Jingoism requirement still there.
 
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