Byzantine obsession with Azerbaijan
- Thread starter Damarrocarion
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Tallies with my experience in Armenia games. Once I've formed the kingdom I'll go for Azerbaijan to give a duchy to the Siwnik dynasty counts of Suenik (sps?), then the caliph launches regular holy wars almost exclusively for there (I noticed after one of the new betas he did try a kingdom invasion once for variety), the Saffarids too if they're strong enough. Suits me as the short travel times between mountainous provinces allows you to maximise defence and defeat enemy stacks in detail.
They're after Baku and the oil supply lines. Byzantium plays the long game.
They've got to get more of the raw materials for Greek Fire from somewhere.
As long as they stay out of Volgograd, things will surely pan out in their favour.
I have the same impression as the OP - ERE seems to head for Azerbaijan immediately after consolidating Armenia. Not logical at all, and it does seem to happen pretty consistently. If the duchies have some sort of numerical values influencing their preponderance of being holy-warred for, Azerbaijan should definitely be downgraded for the ERE.
This is another implausible pattern of behaviour for the Byzantines, and should be tweaked if possible. It is difficult to see how the area could have been either A) a particularly attractive area for spreading Roman domination into, or B) feasibly dominated with the Roman societal and economic structures. The Syro-Palestine, even Egypt, would both have occupied the restitutionist sentiments among the Byzantines to a much greater degree.
This is another implausible pattern of behaviour for the Byzantines, and should be tweaked if possible. It is difficult to see how the area could have been either A) a particularly attractive area for spreading Roman domination into, or B) feasibly dominated with the Roman societal and economic structures. The Syro-Palestine, even Egypt, would both have occupied the restitutionist sentiments among the Byzantines to a much greater degree.
Abbasids also seem to have weird focus on Azerbaijan. In this game, Byzantine interest on me sort of ended as soon as they stopped having land connection to Azerbaijan, even though he borders Georgia. Abbasids jumped to the fun after they took Armenia. Of course, I am maybe bit too strong for Byzzies but...
Fortunately at least my west is covered since I abducted Seljuks daughter as concubine/wife and used their horde stack to handle a Liberation Revolt so they will not attack me anymore due to low numbers and I use them as buffer against Prathiara
hey, if i cant turn the med. back into a roman lake, i may as well turn the black sea into one.
also, it makes sense for the byzies gameplay wise - i cant expand south into the holy lands because of jesus christ the muslims; without the 50 thousand holy orders of rome to back me up, as well as a joinable crusade, i have no teeth going south. going north slams me into the christians/organized pagans, and will likely be a wide front war that gets me nowhere. Going west slams me into the other muslims and the other, better christians, and thats also a np.
so, my options are take dem oil or go spread the love to the nomads.
We're not talking about player behaviour here. We're talking about AI behaviour. That you decide to take the steppes and Azerbaijan is not that weird player behaviour. But it is odd AI behaviour. The Byzantine AI should value going south higher than going north.
It should also prioritise its de-jure territory, especially Anatolia/Armenia. Even if the Abbasids/Seljuks/Whateverids aren't a threat anymore, Byzantium always goes for Sicily and Syria first before even thinking about reconquering the de-jure provinces it actually borders.
i was talking about the AI
the AI, especially with super abbassids, knows it cant go south and win very well, but it knows it can go north and to a degree east and do very well.
it shouldnt prioritize a suicide mission over easy targets
the AI, especially with super abbassids, knows it cant go south and win very well, but it knows it can go north and to a degree east and do very well.
it shouldnt prioritize a suicide mission over easy targets
I have seen weirder things. It had launched a D-Day invasion of Jerusalem once before having done anything in Anatolia and the funny thing is it succeeded.
First of all, let me pre-empt any accusations of thread necromancy: the last post in this one has been only some months ago, and the issue is very much a problem still. Here's another demonstration of the insanity that ensues from the Byzantine obsession with Azerbaijan - and, following that, Tabriz. In this instance (the starting year was one of the low points of Byzantine Asia Minor, before the Alexiad start), the emperor - after the French had taken Asiatic Greece in a Crusade - first holy-warred for Armenia (not in itself implausible, but in this geopolitical situation already very silly), then for Azerbaijan (I considered rage-quitting), then for Tabriz (I rage-quit).
There is no sense or plausibility in this, and I have to say that it bothers me immensely: perhaps my second-biggest peeve with the game at the moment after the equally insane way and frequency in which rulers seem to convert to other Abrahamic religions (I've had Orthodox Ghasnavids, Muslim Charlemagne, and Muslim Frederick Barbarossa just in the past week).
Byzantium should really lose Armenia, Croatia, Sicily and Georgia. The borders in the Balkans and Anatolia remained pretty much the same from 769 to Basil II's reconquests. Bulgaria and Serbia should remain de jure Byzantine because of Basil II and the fact the Byzantines always seen the Danube as their natural border.
Classist does have a point the Byzantines like to go into Persia over the Syria, I did have in one game the Byzantines hold Tabriz,Tabaristan and Azerbaijan. Oddly enough if it's possible to do the Byzantines do like to west into Croatia.
I believe I made a thread about this over a year ago... yes I noticed this a long time ago.
Well, in my game, i started as Rashka, later became Serbia and kingdom, and they have insistently attacked as soon as peace treaty runs out. Now i have became emperor of Serbia, with Ruthenia, Pannonia, Bohemia, Bavaria, Germany, Poland, and almost all of Europe is part of my empire, they still attack whenever they can. I belive that Byzantine AI is set to be very aggressive toward human players. Plus, for a very long time i could not vage war on them, except when they are engaged in couple of wars, plus rebellions. Fabricate multiple claims, and attack when they are weak.
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Agreed with you. It is very silly.
I started my last game with ERE in CM bookmark. After some 200 years, I decided to play a switch game. When my character's heir came to age, I landed him a certain county and switched playing with him.
I never really considered before to take Azerbaijan or Tabriz. Abbassids were still strong, and even if I tried to attack them, it was because of Holy Land or Egypt.
Soon after I switched to my heir, Basileus declared a war for Azerbaijan. His army numbered 62k, while the Caliph's was 60k. It was a gigantic clash of superpowers that lasted nearly a decade. We actually managed to win, to my surprise.
Some time passed, and the Abbasid Caliph decided to take his land back. I prepared my 1200-men levy and sent it there to assist the Basilus. My face turned green when I noticed that a 40k Seljuk doomstack appeared on the borders.
I don't really know what happened, but the war ended quickly in our favor. I suppose the Caliph was captured, no other explanation. Extreme luck.
Again, several years passed. Byzantine holy war for Tabriz!
Are you kidding me?
We still had the numerical advantage over Abbassids, but their trusty allies Seljuks were there with their huge army.
War ended very quickly, with our army completely destroyed. Basileus is now in -1k gold balance.
I know what will follow next. There will be a holy war for Azerbaijan, then for Armenia and so on.
There is no way for the AI to handle Abbassid-Seljuk combo.
My character will become the next Basileus, but it might take some 20 years. If I manage to avoid a major civil war, I will have no problem to defend against the Muslims.
If I could only stop my liege's suicidal wars for Tabriz in the mean time, it would be great.....
I still see them go south. In one of my recent games, they took all of Syria and parts of Mesopotamia. Even took a few (failed) swings at Jerusalem.