I am going to buy the HOD expansion in a couple of weeks and with all the changes that HOD made I would like to know what the best army and naval compositions are in HOD. Thanks for any answers 
Army and Naval Composition in HOD
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I like making Army stacks of 10 divisions these being:
5x Inf
3x Art
1x Recon
1x Siege
The Recon being Hussar until Airplanes, and the Siege being Engineers until Tanks. This stack gives 100% recon and 100% siege and shouldnt let your precious artillery get targeted as soon as the first front line division gets destroyed.
Naval wise, it genuinely depends what you are going for. If you are trying to keep as high a Colonial score as possible, then AFAIK spam frigates and Commerce Raiders but stay away from transports, as those will give you the best colonial bang for your buck. If you actually want to win naval engagements then spam cruisers as with Torpedoes they give the best value. If you need military score, then its capital ships all the way. Simples.
5x Inf
3x Art
1x Recon
1x Siege
The Recon being Hussar until Airplanes, and the Siege being Engineers until Tanks. This stack gives 100% recon and 100% siege and shouldnt let your precious artillery get targeted as soon as the first front line division gets destroyed.
Naval wise, it genuinely depends what you are going for. If you are trying to keep as high a Colonial score as possible, then AFAIK spam frigates and Commerce Raiders but stay away from transports, as those will give you the best colonial bang for your buck. If you actually want to win naval engagements then spam cruisers as with Torpedoes they give the best value. If you need military score, then its capital ships all the way. Simples.
Thanks for your reply. Regarding the navy I would like to know the best composition for fighting
Personally I do things differentally to Gadajs.
Army I tend to use base stacks of 4 inf, 4 guards, 4 art, 2 dragoons, and 2 engies. Which can be split in half if needed and maintain the same 100% ratios, but also has a lot more staying power. It's probably a more offensive stack because of the guards, and defensively relies on the artillery.
Navy. Early game I mostly use Man O War for the main fleet in groups of 12~ and then squadrons of 6 frigates but they quickly get phased out. I use squadrons of say 3-6 commerce raiders to blockade ports. With actual combat fleets of 1:2 ratio of Capital to screens and sorta make them at my own discretion. Say as Prussia I generally build one fleet of 4 Ironclads with 6 commerce raiders for some early torpedo damage, and then use a secondary fleet of solely commerce raiders which can be split up to blockade. Monitors can be useful but I personally don't like them I prefer faster fleets.
Late game fleets get smaller. 4 Battleships, and 6 cruisers, or 2 dreadnoughts and 6 cruisers is a nice Surface Action Group. Which can stand toe to toe with anything and not get in the way of itself. The cruisers screen and torpedo while the dreadnoughts have long range fire. Then I either add dreadnought sand remove cruisers or vice versa depending on the economic situation, and the theatre the naval battle is going to be fought in. Again if your only fighting in a small area (Say the baltic) then one large fleet to block off access and then small groups of ships to blockade is nice. If you are fighting in the med, a similar but larger force can be used. If you are fighting along the american coast, you want to keep your ships together in fleets.
My compositions probably aren't the 'best' but they do make sense and they work quite well. As you can always throw a secondary fleet/squadron into the fray to support your main fleet if it gets into a tough fight, which the smaller (and faster) cruiser squadrons can move around a lot while the main fleet is a bit slower.
Army I tend to use base stacks of 4 inf, 4 guards, 4 art, 2 dragoons, and 2 engies. Which can be split in half if needed and maintain the same 100% ratios, but also has a lot more staying power. It's probably a more offensive stack because of the guards, and defensively relies on the artillery.
Navy. Early game I mostly use Man O War for the main fleet in groups of 12~ and then squadrons of 6 frigates but they quickly get phased out. I use squadrons of say 3-6 commerce raiders to blockade ports. With actual combat fleets of 1:2 ratio of Capital to screens and sorta make them at my own discretion. Say as Prussia I generally build one fleet of 4 Ironclads with 6 commerce raiders for some early torpedo damage, and then use a secondary fleet of solely commerce raiders which can be split up to blockade. Monitors can be useful but I personally don't like them I prefer faster fleets.
Late game fleets get smaller. 4 Battleships, and 6 cruisers, or 2 dreadnoughts and 6 cruisers is a nice Surface Action Group. Which can stand toe to toe with anything and not get in the way of itself. The cruisers screen and torpedo while the dreadnoughts have long range fire. Then I either add dreadnought sand remove cruisers or vice versa depending on the economic situation, and the theatre the naval battle is going to be fought in. Again if your only fighting in a small area (Say the baltic) then one large fleet to block off access and then small groups of ships to blockade is nice. If you are fighting in the med, a similar but larger force can be used. If you are fighting along the american coast, you want to keep your ships together in fleets.
My compositions probably aren't the 'best' but they do make sense and they work quite well. As you can always throw a secondary fleet/squadron into the fray to support your main fleet if it gets into a tough fight, which the smaller (and faster) cruiser squadrons can move around a lot while the main fleet is a bit slower.
Artillery is better than guards. Period.
Then again what you build does depend on the factories you have. Having 10 brigades of artillery and no artillery factory is silly. If you have luxury clothes, put them to use instead.
Then again what you build does depend on the factories you have. Having 10 brigades of artillery and no artillery factory is silly. If you have luxury clothes, put them to use instead.
Exactly, but I do like my armies to make sense, from a role play perspective as well as work. For example in one of my Japan games I had three armies of 90,000, based on a the idea of one army air corps, one Armour corps, one imperial guard corps two infantry corps and an artillery corps, each with 10 inf, 5 guards, 5 arty, 5 planes and 5 armour. That makeup was only used from about 1930-1936 though and only saw one conflict (a world war vs great power china) and I had the most production of almost every military good with exception to regular clothes.
According to the Wiki the optimal number of brigades for occupying provinces is 13. I don't know where they got this number, but I designed my army around it.
1 Hussar (highest recon unit until airplanes, slightly speeds up occupation over using dragoon)
1 Dragoon (10% of the army must be recon units for 100% occupation efficiency)
5 Infantry (can be replaced with guards if you want)
5 Artillery
1 Engineer (speeds up siege in provinces with forts)
This basic stack is extremely versatile and it's small enough that late game AI stacks will happily attack it, although you probably still need bait early/mid game. You can make a defense only version (replace hussar with dragoon and engineer with artillery), but then you lose some versatility of 'pushing' into enemy territory once you've defeated their attacking forces. These don't split well, but they give you the fastest possible occupation speed so you can probably take two provinces in the same time as you would by splitting it up anyway.
I send these guys in first and then send mobilized stacks behind them as cannon fodder. When the AI commits to a battle with my 13 stack, I dump a couple mobilized stacks in as reinforcements. You can always throw a couple of these together too if you aren't going to mobilize.
As for the Navy, I've played several games now where I put more emphasis on my naval tech but I'm still not sure what the optimal composition is. I have developed a whole lot more variety in my naval tactics than my land tactics.
First, the Battle Fleet, which is basically a ship doomstack to engage the AI ship doomstacks. Early game I use 1:1 ratio of heavy:light here because that seems to be what the AI does with its wooden ships. After cruisers I drop down to 1:2 or even 1:3. I keep at least one of these in each theater although they vary in size. If I'm playing a European country for example I don't keep the same number of ships in Asia as I do in Europe.
Next, I have Coastal Patrol Fleets. These stay parked in the sea zones bordering my coast even during peace time. Their purpose is to intercept enemy transport fleets before they can start unloading their troops and protect my lands from blockades. Depending on how rich you are and how many coast provinces you have these can be any number of ships. If I'm poor and fighting other poor countries, I just use one. If I'm worried about British or French attacks, I'll probably have a sizable force at least in zones I think are most likely to be threatened. The key is to have enough to survive until reinforcements arrive to destroy the attackers.
Then I have Transport Fleets. I use 2:4:13 so each one can carry one of my 13 brigade stacks. I usually only build a couple of these and station them strategically. Maybe 3 or 4 in a big country. Or more if I'm planning some major naval invasion.
Finally, I use a lot of single light ships as scouts and blockaders. Especially in Asia where all the countries are islands or long narrow strips never underestimate the value of a scouting ship to count enemy troops or get some warning when they start moving.
1 Hussar (highest recon unit until airplanes, slightly speeds up occupation over using dragoon)
1 Dragoon (10% of the army must be recon units for 100% occupation efficiency)
5 Infantry (can be replaced with guards if you want)
5 Artillery
1 Engineer (speeds up siege in provinces with forts)
This basic stack is extremely versatile and it's small enough that late game AI stacks will happily attack it, although you probably still need bait early/mid game. You can make a defense only version (replace hussar with dragoon and engineer with artillery), but then you lose some versatility of 'pushing' into enemy territory once you've defeated their attacking forces. These don't split well, but they give you the fastest possible occupation speed so you can probably take two provinces in the same time as you would by splitting it up anyway.
I send these guys in first and then send mobilized stacks behind them as cannon fodder. When the AI commits to a battle with my 13 stack, I dump a couple mobilized stacks in as reinforcements. You can always throw a couple of these together too if you aren't going to mobilize.
As for the Navy, I've played several games now where I put more emphasis on my naval tech but I'm still not sure what the optimal composition is. I have developed a whole lot more variety in my naval tactics than my land tactics.
First, the Battle Fleet, which is basically a ship doomstack to engage the AI ship doomstacks. Early game I use 1:1 ratio of heavy:light here because that seems to be what the AI does with its wooden ships. After cruisers I drop down to 1:2 or even 1:3. I keep at least one of these in each theater although they vary in size. If I'm playing a European country for example I don't keep the same number of ships in Asia as I do in Europe.
Next, I have Coastal Patrol Fleets. These stay parked in the sea zones bordering my coast even during peace time. Their purpose is to intercept enemy transport fleets before they can start unloading their troops and protect my lands from blockades. Depending on how rich you are and how many coast provinces you have these can be any number of ships. If I'm poor and fighting other poor countries, I just use one. If I'm worried about British or French attacks, I'll probably have a sizable force at least in zones I think are most likely to be threatened. The key is to have enough to survive until reinforcements arrive to destroy the attackers.
Then I have Transport Fleets. I use 2:4:13 so each one can carry one of my 13 brigade stacks. I usually only build a couple of these and station them strategically. Maybe 3 or 4 in a big country. Or more if I'm planning some major naval invasion.
Finally, I use a lot of single light ships as scouts and blockaders. Especially in Asia where all the countries are islands or long narrow strips never underestimate the value of a scouting ship to count enemy troops or get some warning when they start moving.
Curassiers are a trap. They have very powerful base stats in 1836 and are strong at the start of the game, but those stats don't scale up relative to other cavalry. With just Tier II techs, dragoons have equal attack/defense, plus recon and more maneuver. With 1870 techs even hussars have more attack power than curassiers.
I suppose this is meant to represent the decline of heavy cavalry with the invention of better firearms.
You're better off to stick with dragoons for your baseline cavalry. During the first half of the game their stats are almost as good as infantry. I use entire stacks of them against uncivs and small countries. It's like infantry with a recon bonus.
I suppose this is meant to represent the decline of heavy cavalry with the invention of better firearms.
You're better off to stick with dragoons for your baseline cavalry. During the first half of the game their stats are almost as good as infantry. I use entire stacks of them against uncivs and small countries. It's like infantry with a recon bonus.
Especially,since in reality, Dragoons were just mounted Infantry,not really Cavalry(at least in the US Army of the time)using their horses to get to where the fight was,then dismounting to fight.
Ok so for my army 11 units
5 inf
3 arty
2 dragoons
1 eng
and my navy
3 dreads
7 cruisers
Does everyone agree this would be fine?
Also where would airplanes and tanks fit in late game and where do guards fit in?
5 inf
3 arty
2 dragoons
1 eng
and my navy
3 dreads
7 cruisers
Does everyone agree this would be fine?
Also where would airplanes and tanks fit in late game and where do guards fit in?
This is the best option I have seen in this thread. Most of the other posts have neglected artillery ratio.
If I can mobilize a lot of troops, sometimes I will create half-armies with everything but the infantry.
Dreadnoughts are optimal for score but not for fighting. Including them represents a tradeoff.
I'm not too sure about Airplanes and Tanks as I normally don't bother building them, but just looking at the stats:
Airplanes are a recon unit. They would replace the cavalry units. But they are also support units so they can fight from the back row (potentially replacing some of your artillery?). Low attack score, but very high defense.
Tanks are a siege unit, so they replace engineers. But they are not support, so they will fight from the front row and have very high attack.
Guards are very similar to infantry, but they have slightly higher attack and slightly lower defense. They also have maneuver like cavalry. I'm really not sure how much that helps with low combat widths in the mid/late game. You can use them to replace infantry in armies you plan to use offensively, but they are expensive so it's debatable whether they're worth the extra upkeep cost.
Airplanes are a recon unit. They would replace the cavalry units. But they are also support units so they can fight from the back row (potentially replacing some of your artillery?). Low attack score, but very high defense.
Tanks are a siege unit, so they replace engineers. But they are not support, so they will fight from the front row and have very high attack.
Guards are very similar to infantry, but they have slightly higher attack and slightly lower defense. They also have maneuver like cavalry. I'm really not sure how much that helps with low combat widths in the mid/late game. You can use them to replace infantry in armies you plan to use offensively, but they are expensive so it's debatable whether they're worth the extra upkeep cost.
Land Combat rule of thumb: ~50% Infantry or slightly more to get your first row filled. Experiment around the 50% Inf in your army to see what works good for you.
I build 10 Brigades Armys in the early game: 5xINF, 2xArt, 2xHussar/Dragoon (Dragoons get better with inventions, Hussars are superior in Recon), 1xENG
or if I need a strong army VERY early
1x Dragoon, 2x Curassier, 2x Art, 5x INF
later i switch to 15 brigades per Army: 6xInf, 2x Guard, 4x Art, 2x Hussar, 1x Eng - works good.
My navy consists of Commerce Raiders only until the invention of cruisers in 1880. This gives you a very good CP/unit ratio. After 1880 I build 1xBS(later Dreadnough), 4x Cruiser groups if I need the military score. If you just seek for highest efficient navy for combat, it's debatable that cruisers only have a better supply/power ratio than the large ships.
I build 10 Brigades Armys in the early game: 5xINF, 2xArt, 2xHussar/Dragoon (Dragoons get better with inventions, Hussars are superior in Recon), 1xENG
or if I need a strong army VERY early
1x Dragoon, 2x Curassier, 2x Art, 5x INF
later i switch to 15 brigades per Army: 6xInf, 2x Guard, 4x Art, 2x Hussar, 1x Eng - works good.
My navy consists of Commerce Raiders only until the invention of cruisers in 1880. This gives you a very good CP/unit ratio. After 1880 I build 1xBS(later Dreadnough), 4x Cruiser groups if I need the military score. If you just seek for highest efficient navy for combat, it's debatable that cruisers only have a better supply/power ratio than the large ships.
Just looking at the stats if I was going to add planes and tanks into my strategy it would look like this:
2 Tanks (replace cavalry in the front row and engineers for siege)
5 Infantry (or guards)
4 Artillery
2 Airplanes (for recon 100% efficiency)
It looks like airplanes may be all around better than artillery so you could probably replace the entire back row, but the supply costs on them are probably obscene since they require both Fuel and Airplanes.
The main thing is you want roughly equal numbers in your front and back row. Artillery (and planes I guess) do ridiculous amounts of damage so you don't want to short yourself by having less of them than you could. Obviously not every army I build in the game is exactly my idea composition, but my rule of thumb is one more unit in the front row than the back. When I'm playing a smaller country without enough manpower or cash to field a bunch of 13 brigade armies, then I build smaller versions of my idea stack, but always with 1:1 infantry:artillery ratio (assuming I can afford artillery) and then boost the front row with a cavalry. Engineers are a back row unit so if you have an engineer, you need one additional guy on the front row to protect him.
2 Tanks (replace cavalry in the front row and engineers for siege)
5 Infantry (or guards)
4 Artillery
2 Airplanes (for recon 100% efficiency)
It looks like airplanes may be all around better than artillery so you could probably replace the entire back row, but the supply costs on them are probably obscene since they require both Fuel and Airplanes.
The main thing is you want roughly equal numbers in your front and back row. Artillery (and planes I guess) do ridiculous amounts of damage so you don't want to short yourself by having less of them than you could. Obviously not every army I build in the game is exactly my idea composition, but my rule of thumb is one more unit in the front row than the back. When I'm playing a smaller country without enough manpower or cash to field a bunch of 13 brigade armies, then I build smaller versions of my idea stack, but always with 1:1 infantry:artillery ratio (assuming I can afford artillery) and then boost the front row with a cavalry. Engineers are a back row unit so if you have an engineer, you need one additional guy on the front row to protect him.
Ok so i think i will use this then
early game
4 inf
2 dragoons
4 arty
1 eng
mid game
4 inf
2 guards
2 dragoons
6 arty
1 eng
late game
4 inf
2 guards
2 tanks
5 arty
2 airplanes
early game
4 inf
2 dragoons
4 arty
1 eng
mid game
4 inf
2 guards
2 dragoons
6 arty
1 eng
late game
4 inf
2 guards
2 tanks
5 arty
2 airplanes
You may want to consider using 1 hussar for the recon bonus (faster occupation - also means fewer attrition casualties from occupying).
Yeah hussars are a better choice than dragoons 90% time, just like infantry is better than guards 90% time. IMO the only real reason to get guards is if there are excellent offensive generals (+4 or more stat).