Are papal claims OP?

[Matthias_Wlkp]

I started as Werner von Habsburg in 1066, got my Duchy, went somewhat pious route - choosing traits giving piety. I started to look around for easy conquests and I noticed, that when asking for a claim from the pope:

Base reluctance: -50
Barely a Duchess: +20
Woman: +50
Child: +25

(going by memory, for child and duchess, could have been the other way round)

Therefore as long as the Pope even remotely likes you, for ~300 Piety you can have almost any Ducal Claim, while for ~150 Piety any county claim, as long as the target is a child or a woman.

My ruler died quite quickly so I got his son, Otto, to rule since he was 15 for ~55 years. Here is the effect:

For 300 gold you can get 100 piety for donating to a holy order, so you can get that piety going quickly.

This is inside HRE, it's still there (alt click on HRE, realm view)

 

[Wintermvte]

i agree, they are OP, not balanced and it is a mess in multiplayer

 

[Yxklyx]

Haven't these same claim modifiers been in the game since original release? AFAIK, the only change they recently made is to make the modifiers more visible and being able to right-click a portrait.

 

[Tatterhood]

Haven't these same claim modifiers been in the game since original release? AFAIK, the only change they recently made is to make the modifiers more visible and being able to right-click a portrait.

I literally never saw the pope willing to grant me a claim or invasion before 3.0 except against excommunicated targets, and often not even then. He's definitely been made more willing to do it.

The addition of the new interface where you can see the list of all titles he's willing to give a claim for also makes it a lot easier than just having to guess. (But I found myself relatively successful just by guessing too, so that change isn't all.)

 

[Wintermvte]

excommunicated persons does not even count when you want a claim from the pope.
i think being a woman is worse than being a kinslayer.

in a game MP game i was able to make three claims, one duchy and two counties in a row. Just got enough easy piety and money from a crusade. I am not sure if they changed the numbers or only the visibility of the option.
it is not very historic that the pope can give out carte blanche.
creating claims with a chancellor, marriage game, killing somebody is much harder than just "buying" a claim. it feels wrong

 

[Tatterhood]

excommunicated persons does not even count when you want a claim from the pope.
i think being a woman is worse than being a kinslayer.

Excommunicated definitely matters for invasions, I guess I wasn't paying enough attention to notice the logic was different.

 

[Wintermvte]

for invasions yes. But not in this claim window, for some reason. but it is too easy anyway

 

[Rokh]

Ooh, I didn't know it was this easy. I haven't played a Catholic ruler for a while, this makes me want to go back to Europe.