Apparently I am a self-serving Crusader and constantly getting excommunicated

[0yvind]

I've been playing as Isabelle of Jerusalem in 1220, and I decided that my father should be my recipient in the crusade for Jerusalem. After winning the pope thinks I am a self serving crusader, despite the fact that I never chose to keep any titles my self. Is it self-serving to simply have a recipient? Is it a bug?

Now I'm kinda raging here, because this modifier makes the pope hate my guts and he has excommunicated me twice in less than ten years - apparently it wasn't enough for him to see me bathe in filth in his streets. Now he wants me to become celibate. The fact that he's a proud, cruel and arbitrary cannibal doesn't seem to cause him any introspection on his own life.

Despite being surrounded by muslims it seems the greatest danger to my rule is the pope himself.

 

[knppel]

Time for a new pope, then.
On a serious sidenote, crusades were in the latest patch, so oversights there are no real surprise. This particular case sounds weird, however, because if I'm not very wrong, despite the new recipient system, if there's a nominal catholic king or Queen of Jerusalem, or at least a claimant, the game used to take this in account in the old design, and ensure they'd end up with their lands.

 

[makaramus]

I think they designed crusades smart enought notice you are cheating and notice you are gonna be next heir or claimant

 

[0yvind]

I think they designed crusades smart enough to notice you are cheating and notice you are gonna be next heir or claimant

Well.. that kind of makes sense I guess (even though Isabelle's father always prefers to make her cousin the heir). I should have realized. So I simply should not choose a beneficiary for a Crusade if the targeted kingdom is one I'm supposed to gain.

 

[Naughtius Maximus]

Yeah if you have a claim on it you will generally become the beneficiary by default, even if you did not participate.

 

[knppel]

On a sidenote, as actually self serving crusader who takes all of Lotharingia for themselves, I did not get excommunicated after. Mightbe the game even takes in account if you're at least honest about it.

 

[WomboCombo]

Your beneficiary should be someone NOT in line for your throne.

 

[Zoomun]

I don't think the fixes for excommunication have worked well enough. I was excommunicated twice in 2 months as the Queen of Jerusalem. The second one happened in the middle of the preparation for the Pope to crown me. The Pope still crowned me even though he had excommunicated a week before.

 

[makaramus]

I don't think the fixes for excommunication have worked well enough. I was excommunicated twice in 2 months as the Queen of Jerusalem. The second one happened in the middle of the preparation for the Pope to crown me. The Pope still crowned me even though he had excommunicated a week before.

well... he kept his promise atleast XD
on serius side yea excomunication is because of low relations I belive

 

[Zoomun]

well... he kept his promise atleast XD
on serius side yea excomunication is because of low relations I belive

I understand that but he excommunicated me so quickly I couldn't repent. The only way to get it lifted was making an antipope.

 

[makaramus]

I understand that but he excommunicated me so quickly I couldn't repent. The only way to get it lifted was making an antipope.

oh so you got it twice? yea I know it I belive a bug :/ I experinced it and giving money to pope right after he lift it usually makes it ok

 

[Rydelfox]

If you got excommunicated twice that quickly, it sounds like either the "Repented of Sins" opinion is being applied improperly, falling off too quickly, or not being checked correctly - it gives -1000 reasons for excommunication, which should make it impossible to get excommunicated until is expires.
Unless the Pope died in between - a new Pope wouldn't have the opinion modifier, so he'd be free to excommunicate you.

 

[0yvind]

Wouldn't it make sense for the pope to at least threaten you with excommunication before he actually does it, when his opinion of you is above, say, -20? Unless you're guilty of some truly heinous crime I think having a -5 opinion from the Pope seems like a very minor reason to be made an enemy to the church. I guess some traits on the pope could factor in of course.

 

[Rydelfox]

Opinion is only part of it. It's possible for the Pope to like you, but still be excommunicated because of things like having sinful traits, the Pope liking the person requesting the excommunication more, the Pope being related to the person making the request, etc.
The conditions the Pope uses were actually made moddable with Holy Fury's patch, so you can check the exact details in common/scripted_score_values

 

[knppel]

Ave Maria
And I know, risking to look like a troll, but just saying, Rome can be handled. I'm not even sleeping with him, nor is he in the society and forced to follow my diplomatic demands (I'm a casual cultist, no demon child yet). I did spend full effort on the coronation and called him again in personally to baptize my daughter and heiress, he liked that a lot.
And of course, I had ridiculous luck in this playthrough and already hold not just a crusade set of holy christian relics to make him like me.

 

[0yvind]

Opinion is only part of it. It's possible for the Pope to like you, but still be excommunicated because of things like having sinful traits, the Pope liking the person requesting the excommunication more, the Pope being related to the person making the request, etc.
The conditions the Pope uses were actually made moddable with Holy Fury's patch, so you can check the exact details in common/scripted_score_values

I think in both my cases I was excommunicated on the popes own behest as I couldn't see any other name in reference. Anyway.. I couldn't find the exact value for wishing to excommunicate a self-serving crusader in the files. However my main issue with this is that it is so sudden. I can't keep checking and rechecking the pope's opinion of me at all times in case some positive opinion modifier wears off and he assaults me with excommunication. I think there should be a warning, then some sort of time limit or decision to "better your ways".

Ave Maria
And I know, risking to look like a troll, but just saying, Rome can be handled. I'm not even sleeping with him, nor is he in the society and forced to follow my diplomatic demands (I'm a casual cultist, no demon child yet). I did spend full effort on the coronation and called him again in personally to baptize my daughter and heiress, he liked that a lot.
And of course, I had ridiculous luck in this playthrough and already hold not just a crusade set of holy christian relics to make him like me.

See, that looks more like what I'd expect from the pope in my games. Now I freak out if I see the pope having only +12 opinion of me and send him all my money.

 

[knppel]

The character above got excommunicated on behalf of some dick in Germany as soon as she got of age. Thankfully, I had ordered a massive coronation before, it turned out the coronation event by the Pope, if held without interruption, fixes the excommunication despite this proud girl of course denying to shame herself!

An update on "self-serving", I can 100% guarantee you now that cheating somehow within the game bounds to get your line to inherit both your stuff and the crusade title will not automatically cause this.
What happened?
Some Norseman in Sweden had success, so the next crusade went there. I manage to be main contributor- despite the others being there first, I managed to engage in the battle on their small heathen army, which netted me the contributor win.
Eve's husband died during the battle, however, so being an opportunisty bitch, she quickly married her crusade beneficiary, a kinsmen with a lot of bloodlines in him already to combine with hers.

Crusader Sweden is primogeniture, and prior to the crusade Eve had only daughters. Thus, her first born son Philippe, from Hugues the Protector (of Sweden, one might add, as there was a Hugues the Protector in Jerusalem already xD ) now stands in line to inherit both Jerusalem and Crusader Sweden.

Oh and. What did Crusader Sweden do first? Wage war on Sweden to enforce tribute, lol.
Pope loves us.