A lot of products become cheaper later on as newer variations are released. For good reasons
An honest, civilized opinion on pricing
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I would have thought "the ability to play the games between 2012 and 2018" would have been enough motivation. That said, if you bought the game at full price early on and have yet to play it, consider my point retracted.
I don't get why people think it's normal to motivate late adopters and NOT reward early adopters. Early adopters are what sells a game... it's because people buy it, talk about it, show it to friends, make videos about it, etc. That a game/product becomes famous. And they still often have the displeasure of having to work around bugs and stuff like that... So, I know this might not be the most used marketing strategy, but imho it would make a lot more sense to give incentives to the long time customers and not just focus on the new customers...
With that said, if anyone had taken the time to read my earlier posts...: I'm NOT against sales, I'm in favor of those and paradox does enough of them (with high percentage discounts) that everyone that wants to get the game for a very cheap price (80 euros for a game with LOTS of expansions and 5 year of development is cheap) can get it. I'm only against lowering the default prices and I believe it would be more fair to do the oposite, have a small sale on the first week of release (10% off?) or a 10% off or something like that for people that already own the other games or last dlc's, basicly, giving loyal customers some benefit and not making us be the ones that pay the most AND have to deal with bugs/problems at releases.
With that said, if anyone had taken the time to read my earlier posts...: I'm NOT against sales, I'm in favor of those and paradox does enough of them (with high percentage discounts) that everyone that wants to get the game for a very cheap price (80 euros for a game with LOTS of expansions and 5 year of development is cheap) can get it. I'm only against lowering the default prices and I believe it would be more fair to do the oposite, have a small sale on the first week of release (10% off?) or a 10% off or something like that for people that already own the other games or last dlc's, basicly, giving loyal customers some benefit and not making us be the ones that pay the most AND have to deal with bugs/problems at releases.
Backwards, very very backwards.
Early adopters buy the game once, at one point in time. They may try to sell the game to their friends, but my efforts have failed strongly in that: the cost of buying in is too scary for most people who aren't already into the game.
Future buyers are MUCH much stronger than early adopters: they HAVE our money, so we aren't putting as much in as newer players would. Incentivize more newer players to buy in, and the cash flow remains a stronger river.
It is correct that services need to attract new buyers. But they also have to keep the existing users. If existing customers leave the company they will need to attract more new buyers to sell new products.
Yes, they have our money at the moment. But they also want to recieve our money in the future when they release new products.
And so there are people who change regulary their streaming service/phone company etc. to recieve the new customer deal because the company doesn't give them these deals because they are already customers. And two years later the same company offers them a new customer deal. This is ridiculous because they want you to cancle their service.
If it where sold as a physical copy 15 years ago Paradox would crash and burn because the marked wouldn't accept these small updates. Would also propably cost more to distribute than it would rake in if we keep now a day prices.
It is not about giving people stuff for free. I don't think they should just make all the +3 years expansions free. But you need to give new players an easier way of entry to attract new customers.
If you haven't played the game and on a fence on whether it is something for you. Then having to shell out 300 euroes can quickly make people look to something else.
And the people that want it for free will always be able to get it for free. So paradox is not winning anything by keeping the prices as they are.
Another thing. While you can do the buying a little extra for it here and there. I feel this will only work with people that are confident they like what they will get.
I had EU4 laying around for years. Bought it when it just came out and never really got into it
after getting into CK2 (which only happened because i started playing Stellaris) i started to look at EU 4 again. And it took me 6 month to get up to date and i didn't bother playing it in those 6 months. That would never have happened had i not first got into stellaris(when it came out) jumping me to ck2 and finally back to EU4.
Back to school discounts in PDX store: base game: 75%, all other: 50%, this is as good as any sale gets for CK2
Base game: €10 , DLCs I would consider more-or-less essential to a complete gameplay (ie. no Monks & Mystics, Sunset Invasion, or Rajas of India and NONE of the eye-candy and music): +€68.87
If you want rulers to look different, soldiers to look different and great houses not having generic heraldry: +€36.21
If you want the full experience without songs: +€17.47
Total: €132.55
Music can be listened to on YouTube, so no need to spend on that unless you really have a lot of dough to fling around and wanna support the composers.
Here are a few ideas/recommendations:
First off I think the eye candy should be embedded in their core DLCs for free. Makes no sense to sell them separately. There is really no reason to buy them, but people are not 100% rational beings and I don't like looking at naked rulers as I did for almost 300 ingame years when playing a republic in a MP game.
Secondly, features such as the ruler designer and customization pack should be part of the base game at no additional cost.
Monks & Mystics is way too costly for the amount of content it provides. It is an excellent idea of a DLC, but it seems it didn't get the love it deserved. I think it should be at the price of Sunset Invasion.
Conclave is similarly overpriced, should be around the price of Way of Life considering the amount of content provided
Old Gods could be a little cheaper considering there will be a significant overlap with Holy Fury.
The above would make the complete pack ~€50 cheaper to a price of €80 which is a lot less intimidating. Consider that most people skip Sunset Invasion and very rarely if at all play Hindu rulers, you would be able to purchase a very complete experience for around €70 which is seems a reasonable price for a game with such amount of variety, yet not so high as to make people seriously consider their opportunity costs.
Base game: €10 , DLCs I would consider more-or-less essential to a complete gameplay (ie. no Monks & Mystics, Sunset Invasion, or Rajas of India and NONE of the eye-candy and music): +€68.87
If you want rulers to look different, soldiers to look different and great houses not having generic heraldry: +€36.21
If you want the full experience without songs: +€17.47
Total: €132.55
Music can be listened to on YouTube, so no need to spend on that unless you really have a lot of dough to fling around and wanna support the composers.
Here are a few ideas/recommendations:
First off I think the eye candy should be embedded in their core DLCs for free. Makes no sense to sell them separately. There is really no reason to buy them, but people are not 100% rational beings and I don't like looking at naked rulers as I did for almost 300 ingame years when playing a republic in a MP game.
Secondly, features such as the ruler designer and customization pack should be part of the base game at no additional cost.
Monks & Mystics is way too costly for the amount of content it provides. It is an excellent idea of a DLC, but it seems it didn't get the love it deserved. I think it should be at the price of Sunset Invasion.
Conclave is similarly overpriced, should be around the price of Way of Life considering the amount of content provided
Old Gods could be a little cheaper considering there will be a significant overlap with Holy Fury.
The above would make the complete pack ~€50 cheaper to a price of €80 which is a lot less intimidating. Consider that most people skip Sunset Invasion and very rarely if at all play Hindu rulers, you would be able to purchase a very complete experience for around €70 which is seems a reasonable price for a game with such amount of variety, yet not so high as to make people seriously consider their opportunity costs.
Oh, by the way... this is from Paradox Interactive's Q2 2018 report:
"In april, we ran a free-to-play promotion on Steam with Crusader Kings II, one of our longest-running live games, where the base game was made free to download and keep for 48 hours.The promotion drove a significant influx of new players and a healthy increase in revenue from expansion sales. At one point during the promotion, Crusader Kings II became one of the top 5 most played titles on Steam worldwide."
So lowering the bar for entry does indeed increase sales in the long run
"In april, we ran a free-to-play promotion on Steam with Crusader Kings II, one of our longest-running live games, where the base game was made free to download and keep for 48 hours.The promotion drove a significant influx of new players and a healthy increase in revenue from expansion sales. At one point during the promotion, Crusader Kings II became one of the top 5 most played titles on Steam worldwide."
So lowering the bar for entry does indeed increase sales in the long run
No, it's not backwards... I know marketing, I KNOW the world doesn't work as I described, I know that companies are interested in selling more and making more profit and not in rewarding the people that deserve it (the loyal customers) I know that sadly the world works like that. I know that your way of focusing on new potencial clients, giving them benefits over making your old customers happy is in general a beter bussiness model.. I'm just saying that it's sad that the world works like that... that stuff like client loyalty means nothing now a days. That is why people in my country (Netherlands) switch stuff like insurance / energy-, internet-, gas-, water-providers very often, just because you are rewarded for being a new customer (cheaper prices first months, signing-up gifts) but not for being a long term client.. I'm not saying that this isn't how the world works right now... I'm just saying that it's sad and SHOULDN'T work like that. We don't care about the people, about loyalty anymore, only about maximazing profits... THAT is what i'm arguing.
That's capitalism yo
Also think of this like this: is a customer willing to wait 10 years before purchasing a now brand-new laptop "rewarded" by a lower price? Nope, the company is _lucky_ to sell that thing at _any_ price. After X years every new customer is like change found in the mattress or a few bucks found in the pockets of your old coat. It is bonus money, it does _not_ support the developers, only supports investors. Developers are supported by pre-orders and first 6 months sales
That said however, I also think PDX should have some sort of loyalty plan such as reduced pre-order prices (or more tangible pre-order rewards) for long-term customers
How would a company be able to determine the loyal customers who buy first from the people who by sheer coincidence discovered (and bought) the game the day it was released?
Things, including games, just get cheaper the more time elapses since their release, it's nothing new and it isn't a conscious move to emphasize new costumers over old ones. I mean by that logic anybody who paid full price for Fallout New Vegas when it was released should get upset because it only costs 9.99 now...
And comparing bundles of software that is 4-6 Years Old to the way some companies handle their internet service plans is like comparing apples to oranges.
And comparing bundles of software that is 4-6 Years Old to the way some companies handle their internet service plans is like comparing apples to oranges.
That is some very negative view you've got there.
This issue is not about 'some people that think they should get everything for free'. These people simply download this game illegally and don't care.
This issue is about people that want to play the game and think they should pay for it, but are scared of by the high pricing.
You might think that paradox deserves high payment for what they made, but that doesn't make any difference when people are not willing to pay that price.
But it has been said over and over that the game is often on sale and when on sale the price is not really expensive, probably cheaper then a 'normal' triple-A game with a single expansion. (around 80 euros) And for that you are getting 5 years of development, base game + LOTS of expansions (and you can skip some expansions for an even cheaper price).. How is that so scary/expensive for new players? So isn't still complaining about the price kind of ridiculous? You want what? 5 year of development in a game that is STILL being developed (and the next expansion seem to be the biggest to date) be given for what? Less then a single triple-a game? Like what? € 40? It's kind of ridiculous to ask for cheaper prices...
Regarding price, as I always get the DLC as soon as they are out and only care about feature DLC, it doesn't seem pricy as I get additional experience 2/3 times per year that allow me to rediscover a game for easily 200h.
The problem is someone coming from scratch and seing the number of DLC.
I do some lives on CK2 and the things that I hear the most is that CK2 + DLC cost a lot.
But first they don't see that more than half the price is cotton candy.
Then, they don't understand that the base game IS enjoyable without the DLC. It seems so that people believe that not having the DLC make the game not fun or not finished. Which might be true for some games but CK2 is quite solid even without DLCs.
My only remark would be that 40$ base price for the base CK2 game from 2012 is a bit excessive.
If we compare to let say Mass Effect 3 (2012 as well), the game is now 20$
Considering Mass Effect 3 initial price might have been higher than CK2, this hurt new comers to the game. (luckily PDX made a free CK2 week-end)
The problem is someone coming from scratch and seing the number of DLC.
I do some lives on CK2 and the things that I hear the most is that CK2 + DLC cost a lot.
But first they don't see that more than half the price is cotton candy.
Then, they don't understand that the base game IS enjoyable without the DLC. It seems so that people believe that not having the DLC make the game not fun or not finished. Which might be true for some games but CK2 is quite solid even without DLCs.
My only remark would be that 40$ base price for the base CK2 game from 2012 is a bit excessive.
If we compare to let say Mass Effect 3 (2012 as well), the game is now 20$
Considering Mass Effect 3 initial price might have been higher than CK2, this hurt new comers to the game. (luckily PDX made a free CK2 week-end)
While I am a supporter of Paradox’s DLC policy (it’s hard to be a supporter at first but if you follow the game development for very long you see how they really try to put a lot in the free patch and can do so because of the DLC) I have to admit that we’re starting to get to a point where there may be to many features spread across too many DLC.
To further explain, it seems most of the DDs have a line that says “we will now allow people who buy Holy Furry to also have access to [content from another DLC]” or, “this content will remained locked unless you own [another DLC]”.
While this does not bother me, as I own all the DLC, I can understand how that might be confusing or frustrating for new players. I want the game to continue to refine the many mechanics that have been made over the last several years. But adjusting mechanics from previous DLC can get messy fast, so I don’t know what the answer is. I hope that Paradox finds a good answer. Either way, I will probably continue to buy the DLC as long as they make it.
To further explain, it seems most of the DDs have a line that says “we will now allow people who buy Holy Furry to also have access to [content from another DLC]” or, “this content will remained locked unless you own [another DLC]”.
While this does not bother me, as I own all the DLC, I can understand how that might be confusing or frustrating for new players. I want the game to continue to refine the many mechanics that have been made over the last several years. But adjusting mechanics from previous DLC can get messy fast, so I don’t know what the answer is. I hope that Paradox finds a good answer. Either way, I will probably continue to buy the DLC as long as they make it.
DLCs unlocking the same things isn't necessarily bad when it makes sense thematically. For example you get the silk road with either Horse Lords or Jade Dragon. Or you get dueling with Way of Life (because that introduced dueling during war focus) or Holy Fury (through the warrior societies). Confusing, sure, but except for non-thematic features being locked behind DLC (such as rally points, ally orders and CBs) it's not unfair. If things were neat and strictly separated, the game experience would be worse. Dueling being available several ways for example shows that systems are being integrated where it makes sense.
There are even areas were that could have gone further. It would have made some sense to unlock Buddhism with Jade Dragon for example. Though I see how that would devalue Rajas of India a bit
It could be an opportunity to revisit the prices of older DLCs though. Paganism is now not exclusive to The Old Gods anymore. It seems like Holy Fury could be the definite DLC for defensive pagans, but ToG is still relevant for Vikings due to the earlier start date. Even then you could bypass it somewhat by having Holy Fury + Charlemagne
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I agree its a bit daunting probably a good way to do it would be to release a new game of year version every time a new dlc is released.
So currently you have the game seperate plus you have a version that includes all dlcs till jade dragon. this would allow someone to jump right in. it wouldnt be a season pass so new dlcs would need to be bought at the same price. but would prevent people either having to wait for a sale or never trying ck2.
I dont know how the base game is at the moment but there is so much stuff that has been added over the years that I cant see myself playing the base actually for all paradox games.
So currently you have the game seperate plus you have a version that includes all dlcs till jade dragon. this would allow someone to jump right in. it wouldnt be a season pass so new dlcs would need to be bought at the same price. but would prevent people either having to wait for a sale or never trying ck2.
I dont know how the base game is at the moment but there is so much stuff that has been added over the years that I cant see myself playing the base actually for all paradox games.
Play the base game, it is very good. You gain a lot of free features for being a late adopter that I never had so enjoy it. No need for free DLC
You can't just do the youtube thing with the sound part of the game. That has as much merit as simply torrenting all of it.