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AGC: United States of America

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Please go here for the replacement "frontpage" for the USA thread.








shield_USA.gif
shield_que.gif

This thread deals with USA and those northeners who speak funny.
Related threads:
* Western Europe
* Mesoamerica
Last document update: November 23rd
Implementation status: red = implemented, green = submitted, yellow = ready for next beta


CONCLUSION LIST
  • USA should be reformed rather than protestant.
  • Powhatan, Hindua, Detroit, Acadie and Nova Scotia should all be changed to forest.
  • The Great Lakes should be changed from seas to lakes.
  • USA should not get French culture in the Louisiana purchase, but rather have the provinces changed to the state culture (Anglosaxon) after a while.
  • France and England should get CB shields on appropriate provinces, with appropriate changes as time goes by.
EVENT LIST
  • Event numbers:
    22600 - 22699 are reserved
    22600 - ? are used ("Sale of Florida" set)
  • Prior to the sale of Florida, USA seizes the surrounding provinces. USA gets the opportunity to pay reparations. These events, and the sale of Florida event, are cloned for France and England as well.
DISCUSSION LIST
  • Are there any special historical military leaders that should be added?
  • Which presidential elections have difficulties (bugs)when choosing a candidate other than the current one?
USABLE SOURCES
 
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Quick note: if the thread intrudes too much on Krunch's covering of the Americas, it (this thread) will be aborted.
 
I don't know about Lincoln, but I am positive there was a General Gates. If I recall he operated mainly in the central colonies (PA, MD, VA), but I may be horribly wrong.
 
Originally posted by Onslaught
Should USA be protestant or reformed?
Click to expand...

Well preferably the state religion should be "athiest", since the USA has seperation of church and state. ;) But since that is impossible, I think I would go with reformed.
 
Not that I know of... keep in mind though that these discussions are rather early, though, and haven't had a chance to be baked in the oven yet.
 
Originally posted by Justin
I was wandering if there is an going to be an event that allows the British to create British North America after a British Victory in North America?
Click to expand...

I do not think it would be wise to use a country tag for a nation that would not last very long in game years when it can be used on another nation such as a more impotanat one for a Indian nation :D
 
I think Reformed is best for the religion, for two reasons...

a. the original settlers of Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, and New York (three of the four most influential colonies, politically), as well as most of the other northern coloies, were various strains of Calvinists from England, the Netherlands, and western Germany (Palatinate and surroundings if I recall). All of these are represented as Reformed, I believe.

b. the gameplay value of the morale bonus.

Definitely, if not Reformed, it should be Protestant. The point about seperation of church and state is all well and good, but the gameplay perspective of making it Pagan (the best representation thereof I think) would raise problems if I think.

Now, that's not to say all the provinces should be; certain colonies were settled by different groups. The slave colonies in the south (VA, NC, SC) were (if I recall) primarily Anglican - and therefore probably protestant. Maryland was, at least when initially settled, majority Catholic, though at the time of the Revolution and after, I am not sure that this was still the case.

Most likely, in my opinion, the provinces should be a mixture of Protestant and Reformed, with a possible Catholic province or two in the Maryland area.
 
In the revolter file, USA is locked at protestant. But in the late-game scenarios, it is reformed...
 
There definitely were Generals Gates and Lincoln. Lincoln was Benjamin Lincoln, who was known mostly for surrendering Charleston to the British in (I think) 1779 or 1780. He was an ancestor of Abraham Lincoln.

I think Gate's first name was Horatio, and I know less about him but I think he fought in the southern theater as well (but I could be confusing him with Greene).


-Caliga
 
Also, Maryland should not be Catholic except early in its establishment. Although Lord Baltimore and his followers were Catholics the colony came to be dominated by immigrants encroaching from Pennsylvania (settled by Quakers who were essentially Reformed) and Virginia (Church of England/Anglican). This is the same thing that happened in Massachusetts--settled by Pilgrims, assimilated by Puritans, who in turn were marginalized by later settlers who were Anglican.

-Caliga
 
Horatio Gates was the nominal victor at Saratoga (Arnold had a lot to do with it too). If I'm not mistaken he was then beaten horrendously by Cornwallis at Camden losing all of South Carlolina to the British and getting replaced by Greene who was ultimately succesful in the South.

Wasn't Charleston taken by the British in 1778?
 
Time for the first "Update" post...


October 30th update
  • I have formalized the "frontpage" post.
  • I want to put a few flags at the top of the "frontpage" post. Can anyone provide them? (the flags are USA, Quebec, Mexico and any other post-colonial countries in North America)
  • Should we go for one borg-style American culture or several colonial ones instead? ("American" or "Anglosaxon, French and Iberian")
 
I think USA should have an event which would allow them to get German culture, as opposed to anglosaxon, or maybe both. Because historically, the USA had very large percentage of German immigrants, and came very close to having German as the official language. English won by only 1 vote. Imagine how history would have been different. :eek:
 
One "american" culture.

I know only one "early" Lincoln. Levi Lincoln was attorney general in Jefferson's goverment in 1801. General Lincoln mentioned above wasn't probably related to Abraham Lincoln. Lincolns were quakers and emigrated from England in 1637 (converted quickly). First known Lincoln of president's family is grandfather of Abraham (bore the same name) who was killed by Indians in Kentucky. President was very reluctant when talking about his family admitting only that it was very poor family. Such thing like general during Independence War would be used while fighting about election.

Provincetaxes of many provinces is low at the start but it can be raised by immigration events given to England and then to USA. This way religion and culture can be changed to reformed/american too.

Make Great Lakes lake zones.
 
It's entirely possible that one Lincoln was unrelated to the other. One of my uncles, who was in the Navy, once encountered a man who was stationed on the same ship he was who had the same last name. Except my uncle is half-French and half-Polish and from Detroit; the other gentleman was a black man from Mississippi.
 
Originally posted by Onslaught
  • I want to put a few flags at the top of the "frontpage" post. Can anyone provide them? (the flags are USA, Quebec, Mexico and any other post-colonial countries in North America)
Click to expand...
Feel free to copy the ones from my page. (Though I'd rather you didn't link directly to them.)

Some likely candidates:

Quebec:
flag_quebec.gif
flag_que.gif

Canada:
flag_canada.gif
flag_canada_modern.gif

Mexico:
flag_mex.gif

No USA flag, but Liberia's a half-tolerable fit:
flag_liberia.gif
Originally posted by lots of people more knowledgeable than I
Hey, you ignoramus! Gates'n'Lincoln'n'Wayne aren't just Paradox caving in to typical American megalomania!
Click to expand...
Er. *retracts foot from mouth* Perhaps these could then have their first initials attached? :)
 
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