769 and historical houses

[Poliut]

Does the AI spawn historical houses (that don't exist at the selected start date) as time advances (and certain conditions are met), or would I have to (re)create them myself by spawning and landing someone, and then renaming the house and hoping the COA maker has something close enough to match their actual COA?

 

[Zukhani]

Pretty sure they don't. They only ones that I have seen appear are historic invaders dynasties, Turks and Mongols.

 

[Tatterhood]

The historical dynasties can show up, but just on randomly generated characters of the appropriate culture. There's nothing to cause them to do anything resembling what they did historically or even to survive for more than one generation.

 

[makaramus]

in my mongol campaign(769 start) I saw timurid dynasty from uzbek culture
I was like "oh boooiiii"

YOU ARE TOO EARLY! I am not even mongol empire yet calm down

 

[Poliut]

The historical dynasties can show up, but just on randomly generated characters of the appropriate culture. There's nothing to cause them to do anything resembling what they did historically or even to survive for more than one generation.

Yeah that sort of thing goes away the second one hits unpause. I didn't know if there was going to be a way for historical houses to appear (even if briefly) in early campaign starts complete with their accurate COAs and the game identifying them as such (the game recognizes the Habsburgs as the Habsburgs, for instance, and not custom dynasty whatever).

 

[Rags17]

Yeah that sort of thing goes away the second one hits unpause. I didn't know if there was going to be a way for historical houses to appear (even if briefly) in early campaign starts complete with their accurate COAs and the game identifying them as such (the game recognizes the Habsburgs as the Habsburgs, for instance, and not custom dynasty whatever).

Whenever you start a game it checks the /history folder for all the data to populate the map at game start. If an entry is missing (say the Count of Nowheresville in the 769 start) or if it is short of any sort of data (eg having no attribute or trait details for the character) then the game makes them up. There is no provision in the game to add new characters or dynasties except via event or decision.

That being said, whenever a random character is generated their dynasty is also randomly determined so it is entirely possible to get Timurids, Borjigins etc a few centuries early.

 

[Woifee]

Whenever you land a lowborn it generates a new dynasty. But the game makes him a historical dynasty if that dynasty doesn’t exist yet. It’s pretty much thecsame order they come in existence. The Hohenstaufen amd Bourbon are way back in the order while Wittelsbacher or Louxembourg are usually early in the list.

Some houses are blocked. For instance the Seljuk Dynasty. In the dynasties script these dynasties habe the line: used_for_random=no.
There you can see wich dynasties will never come to existence. For some Reason the Ottomans and the Habsburgs are blocked. I don’t know why. Made a Mod for that but sadly it breaks Ironman. For the Seljuks it makes sence, bur not for the Habsburg.

The same mechanic also works for the AI. Whenever he AI lands a lowborn or an independent ruler without vassals dies out and gets replaced by a lowborn the game generates a new Dynastie. If available a historical one.

 

[Zsrai]

Whenever you land a lowborn it generates a new dynasty. But the game makes him a historical dynasty if that dynasty doesn’t exist yet. It’s pretty much thecsame order they come in existence. The Hohenstaufen amd Bourbon are way back in the order while Wittelsbacher or Louxembourg are usually early in the list.

I have literally never seen this in my near 7 years of playing the game.

 

[Woifee]

Try it. Land a few german lowborn and you will get the babembergs, the Wittelsbacher, the hohenstaufen. Or french and you get the luxembourgs, the bourbons or the de la tour du pin.
Or italians you get the visconti, the faliero or Dandalo.

They even use their special CoA as pagans.

 

[Zsrai]

Try it. Land a few german lowborn and you will get the babembergs, the Wittelsbacher, the hohenstaufen. Or french and you get the luxembourgs, the bourbons or the de la tour du pin.
Or italians you get the visconti, the faliero or Dandalo.

They even use their special CoA as pagans.

I do it all the time and I never get historical barons. I always get "von Holding name".

 

[Steel_atlas]

Yes but in different ways, most will just be random houses of the appropriate culture and religion. Like the hapsburgs will be a random noble line, though they are often barons so you won't ever notice.

Certain events will create historical characters like ragnar lodbrok if he doesnt mysteriously disappear as a child.

 

[Woifee]

Yes but in different ways, most will just be random houses of the appropriate culture and religion. Like the hapsburgs will be a random noble line, though they are often barons so you won't ever notice.

Certain events will create historical characters like ragnar lodbrok if he doesnt mysteriously disappear as a child.

Maybo not with baronies but for sure with count tier and higher.

You can respectfully disagree with me as much as you want, it doesn’t make you right

 

[Steel_atlas]

Maybo not with baronies but for sure with count tier and higher.

You can respectfully disagree with me as much as you want, it doesn’t make you right

Wat, look at your profile it tells you who disagrees with you.

 

[josefrees]

I’ve seen of Luxembourg but I’m not sure if that is just because it was a province based assignment title. Just like if you wanted a bootleg Timurid you could name someone timur and give them land as Muslim I guess?

 

[Woifee]

Wat, look at your profile it tells you who disagrees with you.

Mea maxima culpa. I’m sorry for that.

 

[Woifee]

Yes but in different ways, most will just be random houses of the appropriate culture and religion. Like the hapsburgs will be a random noble line, though they are often barons so you won't ever notice.

Certain events will create historical characters like ragnar lodbrok if he doesnt mysteriously disappear as a child.

The habsburg do nit appear because in the file the have the line „used_for_random=no„. As i mentioned above. Before the map changes when the castle was still named Habsburg it happened tough. Now it is called Basel. So no. The Habsburg with or without the historical CoA will not appear. Except you rename a castle. Then maybe. I’m not sure about that. But for sure without the Habsburg CoA Red leon with blue crown on yellow ground.

 

[N1ghteyes]

I never noticed this until recently but they're totally in there. Starting in CM start as byzantines i noticed the Angeloi pop up, which i was pretty sure they didnt exist in that start. A few other major houses appeared over my playthrough. Really fun to see historically powerful names in my games

 

[Zsrai]

But for sure without the Habsburg CoA Red leon with blue crown on yellow ground.

Yeah but that means they aren't the historical von Habsburg dynasty. It's just some dynasty sprouting up with the same name. It also definitely doesn't weigh historical dynasties above random ones... especially since the game doesn't populate the world with historical dynasties in the first place.

 

[Woifee]

especially since the game doesn't populate the world with historical dynasties in the first place.

Except the game does. For sire not the historical founder eith the same name and birthdate, but the game uses historical dynasties when lowborns without dynasties get landed.

It’s easy to reproduce. Start 769 cheat all counties in your possesion amd land counties to lowborns of culture wich dynasties you know well. You will plenty of them wich exist im 1066 and later. And they use the special CoA these dynasties have. The may be locked behind a DLC tough.

 

[Legionary Guard]

I never noticed this until recently but they're totally in there. Starting in CM start as byzantines i noticed the Angeloi pop up, which i was pretty sure they didnt exist in that start. A few other major houses appeared over my playthrough. Really fun to see historically powerful names in my games

Yeah, I started 769 and had a couple Greek liberation revolts pop up in Epirus and Cilicia. They both won, and when I looked over there, their dynasties were Palaiologos and Kantakouzenos respectively. Then, when I landed a defeated peasant rebel (he had good stats, okay?), that guy spawned as Komnenos.