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Paradox should really pay attention to this review

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However, fanboyism aside, I am getting more than a little weary of Paradox products that basically put the onus of beta testing on the consumer. Hearts of Iron 3, sadly, is not an exception. When I picked up the game in version 1.0 for review, I decided to wait until the first patch or two came out to write this essay, as it is a rare thing indeed for a Paradox game to be ready to go at version 1.0. So I waited, and here it is.

Hearts of Iron 3 (HOI 3) is a still-incomplete game, even after the third patch.
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Just a little quote from the new armchair general review, in all a fair review and he even had the decency to wait till after THREE patches before reviewing it ;)

Paradox really need to pay attention to that first sentence I quoted, time to change their business/marketing model IMO. People are getting real tired of paying premium prices to beta-test a product. Either have an open-beta to allow your fans to really test it or hire a LOT of people and actualy pay them money to do it. Choose or Loose ;p

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/hearts-of-iron-3-pc-game-review.htm

M
 
quite an accurate review. sad but true.
 
I have to agree totally with you.

You can't fault them on their commitment to post release patching (the recent thread from Kallocain is evidence of this http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=449675) and enhancements (i.e. expansions) and I have complete faith that the ultimate end product (i.e. when HOI3 is actually finished) will be great. However, I think their business model is broken and will unfortunately hurt them financially - this saddens me.

One of the scariest elements of all of this was when Johan said that they didn't know that the game was in a bad state for release?!??!?

Hopefully, the mess with the HOI3 release will "encourage" PI to address this part of their business.
 
I love Armchair General, it's one of my favorite mags to read.

I will disagree with the reviewer in the point that he states that there is no way to custom create your ships. You can custom create any ship except escorts, transports, and convoys with any technology that you have, or previous years, so I am not sure what more the reviewer is looking for in this aspect.

Sadly, I have to agree that Paradox has taken far too long to fix glaring, game breaking issues that are still present in the 1.3 patch, especially supply. This issue has turned me from someone who has purchased most Paradox Plaza games on the release date, into a skeptic and review reader, and even games such as Victoria 2, I will wait until a patch where the game reviews stable and playable, as well as hopefully a discounted rate.
 
Myndpyre said:
I will wait until a patch where the game reviews stable and playable, as well as hopefully a discounted rate.
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These are two aspects that make me feel like an idiot now.

What I will never understand: How were illogical diplomatic outcomes possible that were not present in the older games?! I mean there were no really new features in this field. This is where PI really lost credit in my view.
 
Yes a fair enough assessment of the game, a lot of big problems to solve.

The slightly worrying thing for me is that you can enjoy the division building and creating an effective command structure but if this really matters in combat which it should the AI must be able to respond in kind.

Playing as Germany (hard) I see no real effective counter measures by the AI it just sits there waiting to be annihilated, besides a few half hearted attempts at amphibious landings the real fun of the game at present is how fast I can destroy Poland, France or the USSR.

There is obviously no way around Germany not being able to take Poland quickly and France should stretch the player a little especially if the BEF turned up in some numbers. But the USSR, well I find by the time I attack in the east its easier to destroy the USSR then France.

Combat frontage, command structure, division type all combine to allow the player to out think the AI before battle has even commenced.
 
Such a good review that the usual cohort of apologists have not even piled on in defense yet.

Although one wonders how anyone could defend hoi3 at this point.

I honestly feel that extensive modding and patching will not even bring this up to the level of enjoyability one can find in Arma 1.3. The Clausewitz engine itself may be the ultimate limitation and may preclude this ever from becoming the product most of us would have liked to see.

But that's okay, PI - I will still get AOD. If only to assuage the gaping hole in my "strategic gaming" jones that has been left by this Edsel of hoi3.
 
We have half a year worth of posts on this subject already on this forum so I won't even bother commenting. I can even recognize some of the most notorious whiners already crowding this thread so I can easily imagine how it will go down.

I can write something about his crashes though, he should register his game and post to tech support forum. :)
 
I played the demo and was really disapointed by it. It had tons of lag, pop-up messages all the time and the tutorials weren't helpful.
I was new to that kind of game a couldn't understand very well what was going on and was getting my ass kicked.
That's why when the game came out I wasn't interested.
Then I read somewhere that they had a patch 1.3 correcting many issues.
I was impressed but still not convinced I was ready to play that game.
It took me a good discount from STEAM to buy the game and give it a shot.
Now I'm glad I did since I find the game is awesome but I'm sure it would of been a different story if I would of bought the game in version 1.0.
I remember submitting my name for their beta testing and the game came out not too long after... maybe they didn't took enough people to test it? (they didn't picked me anyway...) and waited long enough before releasing the game?
But I'm happy that now it's more than playable and really a fun game.
They even ask us in the forum what we want them to correct in the next patch, this game will be the game of all time once all the bugs and glitches will be fixed :) Maybe when the expension will come out?
 
Bad Vlad said:
Such a good review that the usual cohort of apologists have not even piled on in defense yet.

Although one wonders how anyone could defend hoi3 at this point.

I honestly feel that extensive modding and patching will not even bring this up to the level of enjoyability one can find in Arma 1.3. The Clausewitz engine itself may be the ultimate limitation and may preclude this ever from becoming the product most of us would have liked to see.

But that's okay, PI - I will still get AOD. If only to assuage the gaping hole in my "strategic gaming" jones that has been left by this Edsel of hoi3.
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delra said:
We have half a year worth of posts on this subject already on this forum so I won't even bother commenting. I can even recognize some of the most notorious whiners already crowding this thread so I can easily imagine how it will go down.

I can write something about his crashes though, he should register his game and post to tech support forum. :)
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Keep the discussion limited to the review and don't start flame wars or insult other posters.
 
Actually I just think the design team tried to be innovative, but failed. HOI was and will ever be a game about World War 2. Not a fantasy war with fantasy alliances. The EU III aproach was good to the period depicted. But in a world War 2 game, I think most people want to decide wether they should invade North Africa earlier and with more divisions, if they should fight for Norway with more vigour... Not fighting an alliance between UK, Finland and Cuba in 1938. You have to put limitations, and if sometimes events are necessary for that... who cares?

I hope the designers learned their lessons here and with EU III to make Vicky 2 a decent game. A game with the dynamic of EU III, but with events and more rigid limitations to make games follow a plausible path.

God forbid if they fail.
 
Theresa big difference between "post-development patching" and releasing a game in a beta state. Just because you throw a 1.0 number on a piece of software doesn't mean it really is. Heck 1.3 would be a fiarly bad release state for most software but it was the first version that was even worthy of release.

I don't fault PI's intentions though, I honestly believe they are simply stuck in a release paradigm that is about 10 years old, they just need to move into the future. A small development shop can easily do pre-order beta's, make money, and a get a free army of testers nowadays without releasing a title to the general public and really hurting themselves by alinating the general public buyer who wants his product to work out of the box. You really gotta wonder how much more successful PI would be if they hadnt alienated a large % of their buyers with their current release and patch methodology.
 
I`m a big fan of HOI and bought all the hearts of iron games some time after release, so different patches had already come out and the games were already in good state and a challenge to play. (for me at least)
Hearts of iron 3 is the first game I bought immediately after release but this was clearly a mistake. In comparison to hoi 2 this game is still a disappointment and little fun to play for an experienced hoi-player, even after 1.3, so I went back to playing hoi2 until at least the biggest problems (see top 5 issues thread) are fixed. Imo paradox is too laid back
about this and the game should have been in a better state at this point.
In the future I will buy paradox games, because I love the games they make, but only after extensive testing of demo`s, after some patches come out, and after reading reviews and reading the forums to avoid disappointment.
In the end we all buy a game because we want to play it, not to store it for six months before it is playable.
But I have faith that sometime next year after a lot of patching and modding this will be the greatest ww2 game ever.
So PI, how about a nice christmas present for your customers in the form of news about the 1.4 patch ? :)
PS: I wish everybody here and with PI happy holidays and a happy new year.
 
First, a confession. I’m a long-term Paradox junkie, beginning with Europa Universalis I and continuing through the Hearts of Iron series; I even adore the much-maligned Victoria. Consequently, I tend to buy whatever Paradox puts out on the first day its available, complain with the rest of the grognards on the very active Paradox Forums, and wait, like they do, for the inevitable series of patches that ultimately result in a excellent end product
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It seems that the guy who waited for 1.3 to write his somewhat critical (but he does like the new innovative features!) review is even a big PI fan.
 
I love AG (and am a current subscriber)... the review is spot on.

70% is barely a C... such potential wasted.
 
From the review:

"General improvements in air technology, such as better engines or weaponry, are abstracted, and specific aircraft models are more like placeholders for improved tech. For example, the U.S. upgrades multirole aircraft as technology improves, from the P-40 to the P-51B to the P-51D. Other than the statistics and photo changing, there is really no big difference ... It would have been impressive to build 30 P-40D’s a month in a factory and then watch as the aircraft are filled out to active squadrons. It is much less exciting to build a counter called "Multi-Role Aircraft" and then to send it around the world to an new airbase."

Word. :(
 
If anyone could name a single game that does what HoI3 tries to do, I'd buy it. Unfortunately, to my knowledge, nothing comes even close.

While HoI3 is flawed at 1.3, it's the only game that fills my need. That said, after seeing the USA AI build a billion infantry brigades and then leave them in Washington, I really have trouble enjoying it.
 
I bought HOI3, prerelease. I like to support Paradox because they produce (eventually) such great games. EU3 and previous releases of HOI have been among the best games ever produced IMO.

That said, I have to agree with the OP. Personally, I've been playing EU3/HttT and will probably avoid HOI3 for another patch or two. The original HOI3 was dreadfully unready for release. Personally, I think it will take 1.4 to clean up the bugs and then 1.5 to tweak the AI before the game will really be fully playable.
 
A fair review. More details in air/naval warfare? For air war I play Bombing the Reich. Naval war I was playing Teitoku no Ketsudan. I am not expecting HOI to incorporate their aspects any time soon. At the moment, just to make HOI3 more reliable and less hardware demanding please.
 
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