• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

TheFlemishDuck

Silly Goose
8 Badges
Nov 28, 2001
2.298
3.032
Visit site
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Imperator: Rome
So i read this thread today about clerks ,i had a question there that i wanted to test out ,so i did that and now i have some stuning results.

This was the question that i had.The limitation's for clerks in factory's in Victoria are pop based ,the rule is you can have up to 2 clerks in a factory and you need a double amount of craftsman pops to clerks ,thus to employ 2 clerks you must have 4 craftsman.
I was wondering if pop size mattered for this equasion ,if you would maximize to get youre biggest pops to clerks ,would the 4 crafts to 2 clerks rule still apply?

As for testing ,i chose a small 1 province nation with enough pop's to achieve good test results.A wonderfull chose was Parma.

Parma:

1 province
9 pops 1 aristo ,1 clergy ,1 officer ,1 soldier ,1 clerks ,1 craftsman ,3 labourers.
1 canned food factory

techspeed:
0.61

This is the basic setup of Parma.For testing purposes i cheat.I expand the canned food factory to lvl 2.I demote the clergy pop to labourer ,and then upgrade all labourers to craftsmen.
Here is the situation with 5 craftsmen (details included) and 1 small clerk pop :

6 pops working in a lvl2 canned food factory:
- 3010 craftsmen
- 4013 "
- 9030 "
- 76254 "
- 17057 "
- 4013 clerks

factory output = 0.9

Pop breakdown: (for clerks and crafts only)
craftsmen 92%
clerks 3.4%

Techspeed:
0.62

Good.Now i cheat a little to get the goods to upgrade pops to clerks.We take the 2 most populated pops (17057 and 76254) and convert them to clerks ,and demote the small clerks pop to craftsmen.The clerks can still work in the canned food factory since there is a ratio of 2 clerk pops for 4 craftsmen.
The (stunning) results:

6 pops working in a lvl2 canned food factory:
- 76254 Clerks
- 17057 "
- 4013 craftsmen
- 9030 "
- 4013 "
- 3010 "

Factory output = 1.1

pop breakdown:
craftsmen 16.9 %
Clerks 78.8%

TECHSPEED:
1.87 !

Wich basicly means i can have the whole techtree invented by 1890 ,since i get enough RP's to trade tech a plenty.
I recon there are plenty of nations who have both 100.000 size pops and 1000 size pops ,exploiting this for tech purposes is easy for amost nation and definatly for manpower rich big nations.
 
Nice testing :)

In addition, I don't think you need more than 1 craftsman per clerk. From the 1.01 README:
- You must have at least one craftsmen for every clerk in a factory now.
:) Rafiki
 
You sure ,i think that only counted for when you had only 1 clerk ,and in case of 2 you should have double craftsmen.Not sure though.

Anyway ,it only shows that with converting youre big pops to clerks you can simply triple youre techspeed ,wich for a small country is quite easy.Makes replaying Sardinia-Piedmonte all that more worthwhile. (high-tech army here i come)
 
TheFlemishDuck said:
6 pops working in a lvl2 canned food factory:
- 76254 Clerks
- 17057 "
- 4013 craftsmen
- 9030 "
- 4013 "
- 3010 "

Factory output = 1.1

pop breakdown:
craftsmen 16.9 %
Clerks 78.8%
Nice test. But the percentage values do not matter, you have 2 clerk pops and 4 craftsmen pop, that matters.

I will calculate your output:
pop1 = 0.25 * (1.0 * 1.5 * 1.0) * {1.0} * 1.0 = 0.375
pop2 = 0.25 * (1.0 * 1.5 * 0.5) * {1.0} * 1.0 = 0.1875
pop3 = 0.25 * (1.0 * 1.0 * 0.5) * {1.0} * 1.0 = 0.125
pop4 = 0.25 * (1.0 * 1.0 * 0.5) * {1.0} * 1.0 = 0.125
pop5 = 0.25 * (1.0 * 1.0 * 0.5) * {1.0} * 1.0 = 0.125
pop6 = 0.25 * (1.0 * 1.0 * 0.5) * {1.0} * 1.0 = 0.125

sum = 1.0625

see here

http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119321
 
No ,the object of the test is not to calculate the increase in production ,rather than to check how much youre techspeed would increase if the majority of youre country were clerks ,in this case from 0.62 to 1.87!
 
My point was only refering to the output aspect.

It would be interesting to have more test results between those two tests (e.g. 30% clerks, 60% clerks), to see how the percentage of clerks is linked to reseach.
 
Last edited:
Note ,you can calcultae the percentage easily ,since i used Parma a one province minor for the tests ,i listed all pops in the nation ,i gave data for the steps between.You can clearly see that with converting the 2 largest pops to clerks research has speeded up from 0.62 to 1.87.

Here's a screenshot of my current game as Switzerland.Note the techprogress ,the techs already discovered and the year.

swis.jpg


At 2.60 techspeed , this is the first game where i have to few diplomats to trade tech's for the extra RP's i gain.
 
TheFlemishDuck said:
Here's a screenshot of my current game as Switzerland.Note the techprogress ,the techs already discovered and the year.

Wow.

This definitely needs to be adjusted in a future patch. Either some kind of diminishing returns for the number of clerks in your population or a hard cap on techspeed is in order.

Chris
 
Here's a few last data data.
Ill show some screen's of that Switzerland game to compare with the previous one.

This screenshot show's techspeed and current research achievements: (10 year after previous screenshot)
tech67.jpg


This screenshot show's the population detail:
pop67.jpg


This popcomposition has been like that since before 1857.
Gained a total of 30 tech's in 10 year.
About al poppulation is liberal ,plurality is 100%.
Railroad lvl5 everywhere.
All social program's done ,8 work hours and good for healthcare etc ,all free to vote and form party's etc.

Middle class rock's ,what's the point of capitalists again?
 
Well, having each clerk POP actually require the presence of one craftsmen POP would solve this, at least to some extent.
 
Well, having each clerk POP actually require the presence of one craftsmen POP would solve this, at least to some extent.

No it doesn't.This rule is already set ,you juts bypass it by taking a low amount pop ( <5000) to convert to craftsmen and a big pop amount ( >50.000) for clerks ,so you will still have majority clerks.

In this Switserland game i made craftsmen out of pops +-1000 size and clerks of +-20.000 size.

The game mechanisms don't count how many clerks pops you have for giving extra techspeed ,it count's what percentage of youre pop is clerks.The more % of total population in clerks you have the faster techspeed will go.
 
TheFlemishDuck said:
The game mechanisms don't count how many clerks pops you have for giving extra techspeed ,it count's what percentage of youre pop is clerks.The more % of total population in clerks you have the faster techspeed will go.
Wow I had no idea that clerks would have such a massive effect on RP's, nice exploit spotting FlemishDuck.