Wishes for next Engine/Games

Hptm. Jaadoo said:

I just wanted to convey my wishes/ideas for the next gameengine/games by paradox.

Since Hoi3 already very demanding and had to be "dumbed down" in the beginning, because it wasn't running very smoothly and often still isn't in the later years, I think the next engine needs to make use of as much available resources as possible and the minimum requirements need to be higher than many will probably like.

Few things that in my opinion should be the minimum requirement:
- 64-bit OS
- quadcore CPU, preferably above 3 GHz
- 4 Gb RAM
- DX10 Graphic card (even if not initially, it could later be used to use the computing power of the gpu for things besides graphics)

Besides that I think it would be great, if events could also come with video. So the possiblity to use videos ingame would be amazing, even if paradox itself wouldn't make use of the future, mod teams could use it to add a little extra.


Just my thoughts.

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No! I only have 2.4ghz. So no! Just no...

Here's a wish of my own. I'd like battle view in 2D and from the top, like in the old FMs:

http://www.fhm.com/App_Media/Uploads/Images/Original/fmh-match-engine.jpg

Just mentally replace players with soldier units and you will have the idea.

With some pause, battle events and battle orders (almost all of which are already happening anyway in the background), it'd do a great job displaying the combat without making Paradox to shell millions of euros on a 3D engine.

I think it's a good compromise between the different ideas of not having battles at all, and having them via an insane 3D graphics engine. And we could upload best battles to youtube spamming it with paradox stuff.

I want it so that you can give orders to the commanders on how to follow a general plan and a general strategy of fighting that is formed by the military ranking of your ruler,how good the leading general is,the national ideas and the sliders(eu 3 much)

Wish for the next engine: Ability to modify the AI.

64-bit Windows systems are now the most common systems being sold and 8GB seems to be the current RAM standard for new gaming machines - with some systems being sold with 16GB or 32GB of RAM - so why not use the extra resources to build an engine that provides a superior level of historical representation? As any new engine will take some time to be developed, I would suggest that a CPU/GPU/RAM budget based upon today's top end system would be appropriate for the average new system in a couple of years.

I would like to see the following included in a new engine for HOI:

1. A change of the level of representation in HOI to battalion/squadron/ship level, with ships including individual destroyers, escorts and submarines. Battalions and Squadrons couldbe used to form brigades and groups, in the same manner as regiments/brigades form divisions at the moment, or attach directly to a Division (or Division HQ if implemented rather than assumed aspresent). It would better represent artillery, anti-aircraft, anti-tank, engineers and reconnaissance units within divisions than the current system, as these unit types were not usually deployed in brigade level formations.
2. A representation of individual tanks and aircraft inbattalions/squadrons, to represent losses/damage of numbers of units rather than the current % loss system. This would also enable different battalions in a brigade/regiment to have different types of equipment, e.g. different tanks in battalions within a panzer regiment. The actual units could replace the current upgrade system.
3. An introduction of pools of spare tanks and plans at theatre level that could be used as replacements for units or to refit existing units with new equipment.
4. The ability to convert pools of 'old' equipment to newer uses, e.g. light tanks being converted to SP artillery or armoured personnel carriers.
5. Different industry types for aircraft, vehicles, guns, ships and ammunition, along with different size shipyards for building different size vessels – to represent the real production constraints on naval powers. The change of production from the current centralised model to one based upon factories would also resolve current anomalies, such as better representing Italian East Africa in WW2 – a current problem for HOI3.
6. A more realistic naval combat systems including different armour ratings for resisting damage from shells, bombs and torpedoes, an allowance for rate of fire effects to reflect the difficulties inhitting small targets with slower firing guns, and an inclusion of secondary guns for capital ships to reflect their ability to destroysmall targets separate from their main armament.
7. A more sophisticated supply system, with supplies of different types store around the map for distribution to local forces, rather than the current centralised system. This could be tied into theatres rather than map locations to simplify things.

Hptm. Jaadoo said:

I personally have 8 GB of RAM, but most with similar systems to mine don't. One reason for this is, that people said/some still do, that nobody needs more then 4gb, if they use their system only for gaming. I thin that is bullshit, but hey...

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Figured I'd chime in. I seem to recall in another thread someone mentioned the programs tend to use only 2gb of RAM, so 4 would be an improvement while still being reasonable. That being said, I do enjoy the fact that lower end rigs can run the games. Sooner or later I'll get a laptop that definitely won't match the firepower of my office computer, and it's always nice to have your games playable on both.... even if you have to live with a lower quality setting when mobile.

Hptm. Jaadoo said:

I just wanted to convey my wishes/ideas for the next gameengine/games by paradox.

Since Hoi3 already very demanding and had to be "dumbed down" in the beginning, because it wasn't running very smoothly and often still isn't in the later years, I think the next engine needs to make use of as much available resources as possible and the minimum requirements need to be higher than many will probably like.

Few things that in my opinion should be the minimum requirement:
- 64-bit OS
- quadcore CPU, preferably above 3 GHz
- 4 Gb RAM
- DX10 Graphic card (even if not initially, it could later be used to use the computing power of the gpu for things besides graphics)

Besides that I think it would be great, if events could also come with video. So the possiblity to use videos ingame would be amazing, even if paradox itself wouldn't make use of the future, mod teams could use it to add a little extra.


Just my thoughts.

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With specs like that you'd be making an already niche market even more niche.

Hptm. Jaadoo said:

That may be, but I still think it's necessary. And they are not that high.

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Its completely unneccessary for this point in time, making games with specs in mind isn't economical nor will it be able to reach many people as is necessary to make it a financially viable project.

Clauzewitz is fine, its a very adaptable engine and looking at EU3 and CK2 you wouldn't know it was the same engine. There is no real need for a new engine now.

If we want games to be more complex then they are currently, then higher perfomance levels will be necessary. Don't forget, it's been 5 years since Europa Universalis came out, and those requirements were fairly meager at the time. For instance as an engine it's not optimized for multicore CPUs (which are now ubiquitous), though this has been improved of late. Likewise, 64 bit operating systems are also becoming more and more common. Eventually they'll need to start from scratch with a new engine (there's only so much you can do to extend an old one, eventually you need to start a new iteration), and when that occurs, they'd be foolish not to set the minimum requirements at 4gb RAM, 64 bit OS and 4 core CPUs, or even next gen CPUs, and the latest graphics cards. This is all necessary in order to make more and more computations possible, in order to enable better, faster, and more complex simulations.

The lucky thing about CPU/RAM is that it's fairly scaleable so they could sell something that could work on poor CPUs, but would run incredibly slow. That said, they're going to cut people off with a move to 64 bit, but it's a necessary step.

Hptm. Jaadoo said:

I just wanted to convey my wishes/ideas for the next gameengine/games by paradox.

Since Hoi3 already very demanding and had to be "dumbed down" in the beginning, because it wasn't running very smoothly and often still isn't in the later years, I think the next engine needs to make use of as much available resources as possible and the minimum requirements need to be higher than many will probably like.

Few things that in my opinion should be the minimum requirement:
- 64-bit OS
- quadcore CPU, preferably above 3 GHz
- 4 Gb RAM
- DX10 Graphic card (even if not initially, it could later be used to use the computing power of the gpu for things besides graphics)

Besides that I think it would be great, if events could also come with video. So the possiblity to use videos ingame would be amazing, even if paradox itself wouldn't make use of the future, mod teams could use it to add a little extra.


Just my thoughts.

Click to expand...

Quadcore? DX10?
Thats just silly salesman overkill

Lots of PC ignorance here. Anything past Duo-core is wasted overkill. And 3 GHz isn't close to being common enough to be a minimum requirement. Also, more cores does not mean more speed.

James The 1st said:

Lots of PC ignorance here. Anything past Duo-core is wasted overkill. And 3 GHz isn't close to being common enough to be a minimum requirement. Also, more cores does not mean more speed.

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Bulldozer in a nutshell.
Also, the games should support dual cores but recommend quad cores

Hptm. Jaadoo said:

Why do you think it's overkill? Yeah, many games etc still run with 2 core-cpus, but that is only because they are made with those in mind. And that fact is holding the programmers and software-engineers back in their possiblities. And there are games that make use of 4-cores and more.
And of course more cores don't simply mean more speed, you have to make use of them, which would be the case, if they are the minimum requirement.
And once again: I said preferably. So don't just say, that it's to high, say something like: 2,6 Ghz is much reasonable.
And that could actually be a better requirement with the fact in mind, that EU uses less resources than HoI (didn't think about it before, so maybe 2,6 for EU and 3 for HoI). And since it's gonna come out first again, it would leave breathing room for HoI.

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There is pretty much nothing on the consumer market that can use more then two cores at once. Intel and AMD just make more cores because we have seem to reached the practical limit of silicon transistor based processors and they need something new to release every year. The new stuff like the I7 are more efficient, but their clock speed isn't actually faster.

James The 1st said:

There is pretty much nothing on the consumer market that can use more then two cores at once. Intel and AMD just make more cores because we have seem to reached the practical limit of silicon transistor based processors and they need something new to release every year. The new stuff like the I7 are more efficient, but their clock speed isn't actually faster.

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They've also figured out that releasing CPUs with more cores but lower clock speeds fools a lot of people into thinking its a better product. I almost fell out of my chair when a family member exclaimed that a 2.1ghz tri-core computer would probably be better than a 2.5 dual core.

But yeah, I think bumping min specs up to between 2.4 and 2.6ghz from the current 1.9ghz or whatever it is would do wonders. Hell, CK2 apparently demands 2.4ghz (after my last rig upgrade, I've stopped paying attention to all specs but the video card). Also, letting the program use more than 2 gigs of ram would be lovely.

When I bought a new laptop I went from a Core 2 Duo Penryn running at 2.1ghz to a i3 Sandy Bridge with 2 cores and hyperthreading running at 2.2ghz, I chose a faster GPU over CPU. Honestly I don't think specs are going to have a significant jump until late 2013/early 2014 when the new consoles are released and I'll probably get a desktop when I'm out of Uni by that point.

The Clausewitz engine is fine, and we probably won't see a new engine until 2014 at the earliest unless Paradox have a surprise next month with Project Truman.