On the topic of NIs in the Balkans and Romania; and culture in Transylvania

StelarCF · Apr 3, 2014

I'll be short.

1) Some nations in the Balkans don't have NI's. Also, Romanian countries (specifically Wallachia and Moldova which are both present at the start of the game) don't have NIs. Meanwhile, nations like Pueblo and Ragusa (an OPM and a native american mud hut builder...) do. This needs fixing; ¹

2) Culture in Transylvania is, like in other Paradox games, botched up. It is (in)excusable in CK2, where there is contradictory information, but by 1453 it's pretty much established Romanians were a majority in most of Transylvania (notable exception: some cities had a bunch of germans, and Szekelyfold is and was mostly hungarian).

¹ Preferably, but not obligatorily, something that tingles my nationalistic sense

Equilibrius · Apr 3, 2014

Isn't it more important to bring into the game cultures that don't even have the privilege of existing such as Slovenian and Slovakian?

StelarCF · Apr 3, 2014

Equilibrius said:
Isn't it more important to bring into the game cultures that don't even have the privilege of existing such as Slovenian and Slovakian?

It would be nice, but they're 1 province and 2 province cultures, so multi-province cultures (ahem Romania ahem) should get some attention first. Plus, Slovenian and Slovakian countries didn't exist at the time, nor a few hundred years prior. It should be done eventually though...

Equilibrius · Apr 3, 2014

StelarCF said:
It would be nice, but they're 1 province and 2 province cultures, so multi-province cultures (ahem Romania ahem) should get some attention first. Plus, Slovenian and Slovakian countries didn't exist at the time, nor a few hundred years prior. It should be done eventually though...

It is strange indeed that you want Romania to be represented more but those that have zero recognition should just stay dead and happy with that? I'm certain you would've made a few agreeing allies here.

StelarCF · Apr 3, 2014

Equilibrius said:
It is strange indeed that you want Romania to be represented more but those that have zero recognition should just stay dead and happy with that? I'm certain you would've made a few agreeing allies here.

Well, if we do this we should at least do it in a balkan update, one that should hopefully fix the balkans and Romania... it's a bit ridiculous, I can draw a line where historical accuracy stops and where you enter the bloody Twilight Zone or something.

Mr.Snow · Apr 3, 2014

Equilibrius said:
It is strange indeed that you want Romania to be represented more but those that have zero recognition should just stay dead and happy with that? I'm certain you would've made a few agreeing allies here.

#easterneuropeannationalism

WiseGreen · Apr 3, 2014

Honestly, I don't think any country should have the bland NIs - at the very least, they should make part of some group Idea groups, like what Pdox did with Indian minors some time ago. Give us at least mesoamerican / southeast asian / balkan / subsaharan ideas!

unillogical · Apr 3, 2014

WiseGreen said:
Honestly, I don't think any country should have the bland NIs - at the very least, they should make part of some group Idea groups, like what Pdox did with Indian minors some time ago. Give us at least mesoamerican / southeast asian / balkan / subsaharan ideas!

Nothing but abject laziness on Paradox's part.

zedyue · Apr 3, 2014

Equilibrius said:
It is strange indeed that you want Romania to be represented more but those that have zero recognition should just stay dead and happy with that? I'm certain you would've made a few agreeing allies here.

Paradox usually doesn't like to add tags to nations unless they really think they need to, and creating slovenian culture would need a tag otherwise you get that thing in EU3 where x-nationalists revolt and have nobody to defect to. However changing a few province cultures might be something they would add to a patch.

DicRoNero · Apr 3, 2014

zedyue said:
Paradox usually doesn't like to add tags to nations unless they really think they need to, and creating slovenian culture would need a tag otherwise you get that thing in EU3 where x-nationalists revolt and have nobody to defect to. However changing a few province cultures might be something they would add to a patch.

But that's mere patriots who defect, nationalists want their own state.

zedyue · Apr 3, 2014

DicRoNero said:
But that's mere patriots who defect, nationalists want their own state.

I meant nationalists who couldn't create a new state because there isn't a tag. Didn't know what other word to use besides defect.

StelarCF · Apr 3, 2014

I don't really see the problem with adding another tag. If we have Slovenian culture but no Slovenian tag, what is the point?

DanubianCossak · Apr 3, 2014

Having cultures without tags is not without precedent in EU games. Isnt there tagless Sami culture in Scandinavia for example?

If a culture does not have a tag attached to it (or if such TAG is disabled with revolt_triggers), nationalist rebels will never spawn.

If a culture that does not have a tag (or tag is disabled) is within a culture group, and a country within same culture group exists on the map, patriot rebels can spawn and defect to country within same culture group.

Otherwise, both nationalist and patriot rebels will never spawn, unless forced by event, in which case they should immediately get destroyed, or theyll bug out, or something.

DanubianCossak · Apr 3, 2014

Also on the subject of NIs, if you want them added to your country, it would greatly improve your chances if you actually wrote them yourself.

Basic description will do.

Its the best if you write the whole thing (code-wise).

You need a bonus that you get right away, another bonus that you get when you finish the idea set, and you need to define and describe every one of the individual ideas.

Also note that you shouldnt go crazy with the bonuses youre not gonna get a second Prussia.

oblio- · Apr 3, 2014

Well, see these topics also:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?766498-Culture-and-religion-in-Transylvania
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?762139-Observations-on-Hungary-in-1.4-and-1.5

I even created some National Ideas which could be used for Romania/Wallachia/Moldavia - I think that they're even historically accurate (they're order based on historical moments/situations):
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...Unique-NIs&p=16894604&highlight=#post16894604

National traditions:
+15% production efficiency (Moldova/Wallachia were historically grain exporters)
+2 tolerance of the true faith (Moldova/Wallachia resisted foreign attempts at conversion from Orthodoxism)

National ideas
Flexible recruiting
+20% manpower recovery speed for defensive wars (during several wars the initial battle was lost but the voievodes gathered new armies and won the war)
Skilled commanders
+1 leader maneuver (most historical Romanian battles were won in marshes/swamps/woods/narrow valleys -> forcing the enemy in a bad position)
Scorch the land, poison the wells
+1 attrition for enemies (the preparation for those battles I mentioned)
Latin island (this is bound to piss off somebody

)
+50% coring cost for enemies (there is a reason Moldavia/Wallachia both did not get annexed/culturally converted in real life - in every game they are converted unless the player releases them, or rarely, if an enemy of the occupant does)
Pesant Soldiers
-20% infantry cost (Peasant Soldiers, already in game)
Phanariote Traders
+10% trade steering (the Greek regime of Phanariote traders from Istanbul)
Phanariote Taxes
+10% National tax modifier (same, Phanariote inspired)

National bonus:
+30% Better relations over time (primarily starting in 18th century the Romanian principalities were liked by many neighboring populations, especially those in the Ottoman Empire; since they were autonomous they could harbor freedom fighters - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filiki_Eteria; same for Bulgaria, Serbia, etc, later on)

DanubianCossak · Apr 3, 2014

oblio- said:
I even created some National Ideas which could be used for Romania/Wallachia/Moldavia - I think that they're even historically accurate (they're order based on historical moments/situations):
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...Unique-NIs&p=16894604&highlight=#post16894604
National traditions:
15% production efficiency (Moldova/Wallachia were historically grain exporters)
+2 tolerance of the true faith (Moldova/Wallachia resisted foreign attempts at conversion from Orthodoxism)

National ideas
20% manpower recovery speed for defensive wars (during several wars the initial battle was lost but the voievodes gathered new armies and won the war)
+1 leader maneuver (most historical Romanian battles were won in marshes/swamps/woods/narrow valleys -> forcing the enemy in a bad position)
+1 attrition for enemies (the preparation for those battles I mentioned)
+50% coring cost for enemies (there is a reason Moldavia/Wallachia both did not get annexed/culturally converted in real life - in every game they are converted unless the player releases them, or rarely, if an enemy of the occupant does)
-20% infantry cost (Peasant Soldiers, already in game)
10% trade steering (the Greek regime of Phanariote traders from Istanbul)
+10% National tax modifier (same, Phanariote taxes)

National bonus:
+30% Better relations over time (especially starting the 18th century the Romanian principalities were liked by many neighboring populations, especially those in the Ottoman Empire; since they were autonomous they could harbor freedom fighters - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filiki_Eteria; same for Bulgaria, Serbia, etc, later on)

The problem with this is that you just listed the modifiers, you didnt provide the actually important part, that is the name of each of those ideas and some sort of English description of what it is and what it does. Thats the time consuming part for any developer, as they would have to do the research and so on.

For example:

20% manpower recovery speed for defensive wars (during several wars the initial battle was lost but the voievodes gathered new armies and won the war)

II
V

idea name: "Romanian defensive orientation"

idea description: "Romanian people must maintain the ability to fight defensive wars bla bla bla bla text text text"

oblio- · Apr 3, 2014

See the updated version:

National traditions:
+15% production efficiency (Moldova/Wallachia were historically grain exporters)
+2 tolerance of the true faith (Moldova/Wallachia resisted foreign attempts at conversion from Orthodoxism)

National ideas
Flexible recruiting
+20% manpower recovery speed for defensive wars (during several wars the initial battle was lost but the voievodes gathered new armies and won the war)
Skilled commanders
+1 leader maneuver (most historical Romanian battles were won in marshes/swamps/woods/narrow valleys -> forcing the enemy in a bad position)
Scorch the land, poison the wells
+1 attrition for enemies (the preparation for those battles I mentioned)
Latin island (this is bound to piss off somebody )
+50% coring cost for enemies (there is a reason Moldavia/Wallachia both did not get annexed/culturally converted in real life - in every game they are converted unless the player releases them, or rarely, if an enemy of the occupant does)
Pesant Soldiers
-20% infantry cost (Peasant Soldiers, already in game)
Phanariote Traders
+10% trade steering (the Greek regime of Phanariote traders from Istanbul)
Phanariote Taxes
+10% National tax modifier (same, Phanariote inspired)

National bonus:
+30% Better relations over time (primarily starting in 18th century the Romanian principalities were liked by many neighboring populations, especially those in the Ottoman Empire; since they were autonomous they could harbor freedom fighters - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filiki_Eteria; same for Bulgaria, Serbia, etc, later on)

I will add some descriptions too. But unfortunately I can only translate them to French and Romanian (besides the main version in English)

DanubianCossak · Apr 3, 2014

oblio- said:
See the updated version:

I will add some descriptions too. But unfortunately I can only translate them to French and Romanian (besides the main version in English)

English is the only important part. Get the proper English localization (in game description) and thats it.

oblio- · Apr 3, 2014

ROM_ideas = {
start = {
production_efficiency = 0.10
tolerance_own = 2
}

bonus = {
relations_decay_of_me = 0.3
}

trigger = {
tag = ROM
}

free = yes # will be added at load

# The Romanian lands have been invaded many times. The Romanian peasants have learned that nothing good comes from the foreigners and will defend their land to the last man.
flexible_recruiting = {
manpower_recovery_speed = 0.2
# I don't know how to do this for defensive wars only...
}
# The Romanian captains have long learned that their strongest ally is the land they are fighting on: either forest or swamp or narrow valley or mountain, many enemies have been vanquished by surprise attacks in
# unexpected places.
skilled_commanders = {
leader_land_manuever = 1
}
# In the wooded Romanian plains only the natives know how to live off the land. No enemy will harvest a Romanian crop or drink water from a Romanian well and live to fight another day.
scorch_the_land_poison_the_wells = {
hostile_attrition = 1
}
# It's been a long time since we were cut off from our Latin brothers. None of our neighbors speaks our language and few honor our traditions.
latin_island = {
enemy_core_creation = 0.5
}
# Romanian soldiers need very little when defending their # homeland. They are not mercenaries, but rather peasants defending their homes - as long as they have food and weapons, salaries are of little importance.
peasant_soldiers = {
infantry_cost = -0.2
}
# The Phanariotes have brought many ills to the Danubian Principates, but no one can deny their abilities as traders. Their trade connections with Constantinople serve us well.
phanariote_traders = {
trade_steering = 0.1

}
# The Greek Phanariotes have brought with them from Constantinople a new system for collecting taxes. Our tax revenue has increased dramatically.
phanariote_taxes = {
global_tax_modifier = 0.1
}
}

Here's some sort of attempt at a list of descriptions and names.

Is there a way to make this more visible, hopefully get a Paradox dev to take a look at it?

StelarCF · Apr 5, 2014

oblio- said:
Here's some sort of attempt at a list of descriptions and names.

Is there a way to make this more visible, hopefully get a Paradox dev to take a look at it?

I like these, though I think the descriptions need some more work.

I think it would be cool if we go a couple more DHEs and normal events (I mean, Vlad Tepes is cool and all, but I would say yes to a Michael the Brave DHE and some events for phanariotes)

Again, culture in general in the Balkans and Eastern Europe needs work. Transylvania is a complete mess, Slovenia and Slovakia are inexistent, Orthodoxy in Greece gets quickly smashed to bits by missionaries, and it kinda strikes me wrong how by 1550 Wallachia is either partly or fully conquered, to never regain (though hopefully NIs will solve that)

On the topic of NIs in the Balkans and Romania; and culture in Transylvania

First Lieutenant

Coastal Raider

First Lieutenant

Coastal Raider

First Lieutenant

Sergeant

Captain

First Lieutenant

Ducats

Oberst

Ducats

First Lieutenant

DaputinCozzak Specyal Snowflake

DaputinCozzak Specyal Snowflake

Wallachian Warlord

DaputinCozzak Specyal Snowflake

Wallachian Warlord

DaputinCozzak Specyal Snowflake

Wallachian Warlord

First Lieutenant