[1.10] 50% limitation when picking idea groups

AKronblad · Feb 27, 2015

From 1.10 Patch Notes: "You can no longer pick a new idea group of a certain type (ADM/DIP/MIL) if more than 50% of your current groups are of that type."

Does anyone know whether this applies to player or AI or both?

ikkiks · Feb 27, 2015

Yes, it applies to the player. From another thread:

Hakuromatsu said:
~~So it looks like the cap is actually trunc(50% of idea groups) +1, not 50% of idea groups~~. Dear god I'm tired. The cap is just rounded up. i.e...

1 max at 1-2 total
2 max at 3-4 total
3 max at 5-6 total
4 max at 7-8 total

Which is a bit more manageable, and frankly, I can't think of a SP situation in which I'd want to break that -- or have broken it, IIRC. At least since Exploration and Expansion were both DIP and the first two picks for a couple starts.

That being said, what a bizarre design decision. Opportunity should be important enough of a resource to ward away from bunching up on idea groups from a single category; if it isn't, that's a problem with the balance of the categories.

Incompetent · Feb 27, 2015

It applies to everyone I think. The AI has followed a similar principle for some time now, trying to spread out its idea picks so it doesn't have too many of one type.

User4035 · Feb 27, 2015

All hail the republic!

This makes back to back rulers in monarchies that are high in one stat very bad.
I played a game a few days ago where 3 rulers in a row were admin 5 or 6. And they ruled for 20-30 years each. I can't stack Admin ideas so what am I supposed to do? Conquer and core?

DicRoNero · Feb 27, 2015

Meh, yet another needless obstacle, like recent 'fixed capitals' thing.

Orkonkel · Feb 27, 2015

DicRoNero said:
Meh, yet another needless obstacle, like recent 'fixed capitals' thing.

Except capitols are no longer fixed.

DownTheDrain · Feb 27, 2015

DicRoNero said:
Meh, yet another needless obstacle, like recent 'fixed capitals' thing.

Fixed capitals were never intended to affect players, unlike this new mechanic.

GChapman · Feb 27, 2015

The mechanism for the AI was already s.t. it never breaks this rule. Maybe it prevent the dynamic AI to pick stupid groups and fall way behind in tech.

spinoza013 · Feb 27, 2015

60% seems a better threshold. Or giving a significant tech cost penalty for having more than 50% of one idea type might be less restrictive.

I meant 66% obv. brain freeze moment.

ChildeR · Feb 27, 2015

spinoza013 said:
60% seems a better threshold. Or giving a significant tech cost penalty for having more than 50% of one idea type might be less restrictive.

The effect of changing the threshold from 50 to 60% would be that you'd be able to take 5 groups in one category and you'd be able to pick the fourth in one in your sixth rather than seventh slot. I.e. it would only affect your last three slots in any way.

GChapman · Feb 27, 2015

spinoza013 said:
60% seems a better threshold. Or giving a significant tech cost penalty for having more than 50% of one idea type might be less restrictive.

Meh, 50% is fine. Only the opening influence - diplo isn't possible. All other strategies still work. I never broke this rule except of the influende - diplo opening. So this rule is fine.

DicRoNero · Feb 27, 2015

GChapman said:
Meh, 50% is fine. Only the opening influence - diplo isn't possible. All other strategies still work. I never broke this rule except of the influende - diplo opening. So this rule is fine.

Nope, I really intended picking Admin, Religious, Influence and Innovative (random order here) within my first 4 groups and now that's impossible.

spinoza013 · Feb 27, 2015

ChildeR said:
The effect of changing the threshold from 50 to 60% would be that you'd be able to take 5 groups in one category and you'd be able to pick the fourth in one in your sixth rather than seventh slot. I.e. it would only affect your last three slots in any way.

Sorry I meant 66% (2/3rds). No idea why I said 60%. Brain freeze. :/

Granatenwerfer · Feb 27, 2015

AKronblad said:
From 1.10 Patch Notes: "You can no longer pick a new idea group of a certain type (ADM/DIP/MIL) if more than 50% of your current groups are of that type."

What exactly does it mean? I've planned to start with Economic (Admin.) and next I'd like to take Religious Ideas (Admin. too). Does it mean as 2nd group I have to choose another idea group like e.g. Exploration (Diplo.)?

Tacticus101 · Feb 27, 2015

Granatenwerfer said:
What exactly does it mean? I've planned to start with Economic (Admin.) and next I'd like to take Religious Ideas (Admin. too). Does it mean as 2nd group I have to choose another idea group like e.g. Exploration (Diplo.)?

That's exactly what it means.

Also, didn't Wiz specify that it is 50% of current idea groups? So if you have one Mil and one ADM idea you can pick another MIL idea group because only 50% of your groups are mil.

Granatenwerfer · Feb 27, 2015

Tacticus101 said:
That's exactly what it means.

Ohhh, then I have to rethink my strategy......thanks.

Falc · Feb 27, 2015

Can't say I approve of this design. Simply not allowing things is always a worse choice than making things more difficult to achieve.

We already have a -2% tech cost reduction per idea, per domain (adm/dip/mil). You could easily change that to a more intricate formula that takes into account the ideas in the other domain, leading to a possible increase, possibly even a large one, in tech cost if your ideas are too one-sided.

GChapman · Feb 27, 2015

DicRoNero said:
Nope, I really intended picking Admin, Religious, Influence and Innovative (random order here) within my first 4 groups and now that's impossible.

You didnt fall behind in adm tech?!

Granatenwerfer said:
What exactly does it mean? I've planned to start with Economic (Admin.) and next I'd like to take Religious Ideas (Admin. too). Does it mean as 2nd group I have to choose another idea group like e.g. Exploration (Diplo.)?

The following post explains it all:

Hakuromatsu said:
~~So it looks like the cap is actually trunc(50% of idea groups) +1, not 50% of idea groups~~. Dear god I'm tired. The cap is just rounded up. i.e...

1 max at 1-2 total
2 max at 3-4 total
3 max at 5-6 total
4 max at 7-8 total

Which is a bit more manageable, and frankly, I can't think of a SP situation in which I'd want to break that -- or have broken it, IIRC. At least since Exploration and Expansion were both DIP and the first two picks for a couple starts.

That being said, what a bizarre design decision. Opportunity should be important enough of a resource to ward away from bunching up on idea groups from a single category; if it isn't, that's a problem with the balance of the categories.

Lamahorse · Feb 27, 2015

How about lock this handicap to multiplayer?

The most fun thing to do in SP is stack MIL ideas as Prussia and start building a massive coalition against you.

AKronblad · Feb 27, 2015

So could in theory the AI pick all three first idea groups from MIL?

[1.10] 50% limitation when picking idea groups

Primus Inter Pares

Major

Euroweenie in Exile

Field Marshal

Oberst

General

First Lieutenant

Lt. General

Ri Innse Gall

Field Marshal

Lt. General

Oberst

Ri Innse Gall

Major

Field Marshal

Major

Founder of the Resistance

Lt. General

Functioning Alcoholic

Primus Inter Pares