Japan vs. Catholicism v1.9

TheKiwi · Dec 22, 2014

I started playing as Japan for the first time. Managed to unite the country - even got Taiwan colonised and about to start on the Philippines when some "Smelly Bad Mannered" westerners turn up and my provinces start to turn Christian. Nothing I can do can get me to a positive %age for missionary conversion - not appointing an inquisitor, not constructing fortifications, not passing laws.

Is this WAD? Is there an event(s) coming up that will change things? Or do I have to westernise first? Or surrender and convert religions?

Boodas · Dec 22, 2014

Accept Jesus as your overlord and savior.

Osric · Dec 22, 2014

At some point a decision "Sakoku Law" will become available that removes the -% conversion strength malus. The bonus is it works now rather than just eating monarch points.

TheKiwi · Dec 22, 2014

Osric said:
At some point a decision "Sakoku Law" will become available that removes the -% conversion strength malus. The bonus is it works now rather than just eating monarch points.

Cool, that's all I need to know to carry on. Is it more advantageous to convert or will following the true path of Shintoism be better?

jacobsighs · Dec 22, 2014

Boodas said:
Accept Jesus as your overlord and savior.

I, for one, welcome our new Judeo-Christian ruler.

GabbyDieJaeger · Dec 22, 2014

TheKiwi said:
Cool, that's all I need to know to carry on. Is it more advantageous to convert or will following the true path of Shintoism be better?

You won't get any cardinals in Asia, so it's hard to justify giving up Shinto's morale bonus and the ability to Deus Vult on whomever you damn well please for Catholicism's rather lackluster innate bonuses. Perhaps if you really, really want a royal marriage with some European power.

Less · Dec 22, 2014

GabbyDieJaeger said:
You won't get any cardinals in Asia, so it's hard to justify giving up Shinto's morale bonus and the ability to Deus Vult on whomever you damn well please for Catholicism's rather lackluster innate bonuses. Perhaps if you really, really want a royal marriage with some European power.

Once he's Catholic he'll be able to switch to Reformed, which is the gravy train of religious groups.

Also PUs with europeans + becoming the HRE.

IZob · Dec 22, 2014

TheKiwi said:
I started playing as Japan for the first time. Managed to unite the country - even got Taiwan colonised and about to start on the Philippines when some "Smelly Bad Mannered" westerners turn up and my provinces start to turn Christian. Nothing I can do can get me to a positive %age for missionary conversion - not appointing an inquisitor, not constructing fortifications, not passing laws.

Is this WAD? Is there an event(s) coming up that will change things? Or do I have to westernise first? Or surrender and convert religions?

Go either full Catholic or full Shinto. To do this you want to pick the relative decisions including ones that help you convert provinces. Do not try to be tolerant. I tried it and it didn't work!!!! Seriously, the rebels, they hurt.

lordelenath · Dec 22, 2014

IZob said:
Go either full Catholic or full Shinto. To do this you want to pick the relative decisions including ones that help you convert provinces. Do not try to be tolerant. I tried it and it didn't work!!!! Seriously, the rebels, they hurt.

Being tolerant only works if you stack it to a reliable +3 to avoid the -religious unity and the like., which isn't feasible for every tag. However, it'll never be as stable as true faith provinces.

ahyangyi · Dec 22, 2014

lordelenath said:
Being tolerant only works if you stack it to a reliable +3 to avoid the -religious unity and the like., which isn't feasible for every tag. However, it'll never be as stable as true faith provinces.

(Looks at the various Indian idea sets with +3 tolerance of heathens AND +50% religious unity)

VolitionNewlove · Dec 22, 2014

lordelenath said:
Being tolerant only works if you stack it to a reliable +3 to avoid the -religious unity and the like., which isn't feasible for every tag. However, it'll never be as stable as true faith provinces.

Becoming tolerant is something you have to go well out of your way for, if you stay as Shinto. It's a lot easier as Catholic, although by that point, it's generally not very worthwhile.

lordelenath · Dec 22, 2014

ahyangyi said:
(Looks at the various Indian idea sets with +3 tolerance of heathens AND +50% religious unity)

Even with +3 tolerance of heathens you will not achieve the same -rr as with 100% true faith, simply because tolerance of heathens/heretics is maxed at +3 while TTF isn't maxed at all.

BaZERGer · Dec 22, 2014

The decision should pop up right away once you make contact, or at least appear in the decisions list.

Code:

	# Sakoku
	enforce_sakoku_law = {
		potential = {
			tag = JAP
			NOT = { has_country_modifier = sakoku_law }
			NOT = { has_country_flag = sakoku_law }
			has_country_modifier = "western_trade"
		}
		allow = {
			stability = 2
			num_of_cities = 15
			OR = {
				legitimacy = 75
				republican_tradition = 75
			}
			adm_power = 200
			mil_power = 200
			dip_power = 200
		}

If you chose to stay Shinto, your decisions for missionary strength can end up giving you some -7 to -9 total tolerance of heathens, and negative tolerance seems to give 125% it's value in revolt risk, so new conquests can give leave you with some 25% revolt risk in each new province. Humanism can of course help a lot, especialy if you don't want to raise autonomy, but can easily make do without it, at least if you stay within the first 100% of overextension.

TheKiwi · Dec 22, 2014

BaZERGer said:
The decision should pop up right away once you make contact, or at least appear in the decisions list.

...

If you chose to stay Shinto, your decisions for missionary strength can end up giving you some -7 to -9 total tolerance of heathens, and negative tolerance seems to give 125% it's value in revolt risk, so new conquests can give leave you with some 25% revolt risk in each new province. Humanism can of course help a lot, especialy if you don't want to raise autonomy, but can easily make do without it, at least if you stay within the first 100% of overextension.

Yep I did end up getting that once I got my M Points to a sufficient level. And it sorted things more of less too - although I was playing "whack a mole" against outbreaks of Catholicism for a while...

in heaven · Dec 22, 2014

The problem is that you get all this catholic jazz and stuff but game never notices you that you need to enforce sakoku law to stop catholics. People come to forums confused, and i remember i was confused too and had to go to forums to find threads which were discussing this matter.. There should be alert or something that shows what to do.. I didnt even notice that decision until i went to forums..

Jokolytic · Dec 23, 2014

jacobsighs said:
I, for one, welcome our new Judeo-Christian ruler.

"Judeo-" has nothing to do with it. Thanks, bye.

aitaituo · Dec 23, 2014

If you want to switch to Catholic, never Enforce Sakoku Law. You will continue to get events that switch your provinces to Catholic and these effect all your provinces, not just the Japanese and Shinto ones. Furthermore, you will get a periodic event that gives you -15% military tech cost for the rest of your ruler's life.

A Westernized Catholic Japan without Sakoku is kind of incredible.

TheGrouch91 · Dec 23, 2014

Did anyone ever had a colonial nation when this event started? Because i had the weird bug, that i could enact the decision but my colonial nation instead of me would get the modifier. So i was forced to convert to catholicism as the -5% was just too much. (i actually quit because of that...)

VolitionNewlove · Dec 23, 2014

In purely strategic terms, it's almost always better to convert to Catholicism.

buchno · Dec 23, 2014

Related question: if you enforce sakoku law and get fumi-e events as a result, how do you deal with them on islands?
The size of each revolt is about 70% of my total forcelimit.

Should I just hand all the conquered provinces back to portugal?
...or feed the catholic islands to non-shinto vassals before the event occurs?

Japan vs. Catholicism v1.9

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