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Is a "hungarian" hungary even possible in the new start date?

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Nyrael said:
This makes little sense though: they moved away due to Pechenegs (who themselves moved westwards due to Khazars), tried to go into Germany, were halted by the Karlings, settled in Panonia.
Nomadic cultures should really get some kind of migratory and settlement mechanics. If a nomadic tribe is conquered by another nomadic tribe, that tribe should get an option to form a horde and move westwards and try to snatch a new land somewhere else and, if not a stepe, settle eventually.
Railroading Magyars into forming Hungary is way too implausible as the similar historical occurrences are unlike to occur in the game so I really would not like to see it. Magyras should rarely form Hungary in Panonia.
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That's all I could think of. One of the posters above had a good idea about the Magyars starting off in the east and slowly moving west until they get event troops to raid Europe. If we get the steppe expansion I'm hoping for we'd hopefully get these mechanics with it.
 
Nyrael said:
This makes little sense though: they moved away due to Pechenegs (who themselves moved westwards due to Khazars), tried to go into Germany, were halted by the Karlings, settled in Panonia.
Nomadic cultures should really get some kind of migratory and settlement mechanics. If a nomadic tribe is conquered by another nomadic tribe, that tribe should get an option to form a horde and move westwards and try to snatch a new land somewhere else and, if not a stepe, settle eventually.
Railroading Magyars into forming Hungary is way too implausible as the similar historical occurrences are unlike to occur in the game so I really would not like to see it. Magyras should rarely form Hungary in Panonia.
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Panonia was the terminus point of the steppe world, which stretched from Central Asia to the Carpathians. I believe it should not be a rare occurence for the Magyars to form Hungary in Panonia, but they shouldn't be the only ones trying. What if the Pechenegs had been defeated?
The Magyars were but one in a long line of peoples who settled there and they were followed, in turn (among others), by the Cumans and Mongols - the first were eventually assimilated, while the last were prevented into leaving a stronger and bloodier mark only by events back home in Karakorum.

If the proposal that a defeated tribe, who loses its lands to a tribal/feudal enemy, will spawn event troops which, in turn, will attack and settle the lands of the weakest neghbour is implemented correctly, I believe that it would give a better simulation of early - high medieval tribal migrations.
 
Nyrael said:
This makes little sense though: they moved away due to Pechenegs (who themselves moved westwards due to Khazars), tried to go into Germany, were halted by the Karlings, settled in Panonia.
Nomadic cultures should really get some kind of migratory and settlement mechanics. If a nomadic tribe is conquered by another nomadic tribe, that tribe should get an option to form a horde and move westwards and try to snatch a new land somewhere else and, if not a stepe, settle eventually.
Railroading Magyars into forming Hungary is way too implausible as the similar historical occurrences are unlike to occur in the game so I really would not like to see it. Magyras should rarely form Hungary in Panonia.
Click to expand...
I think that's what the 480 start date mod is trying to implement. If I understood correctly, they have a new "migration CB" that allows tribes to invade a certain area. If they win the war, they will win the target territory, BUT lose their original provinces (vassals of other culture become independant, the other provinces get random-generated rulers.)
 
Just a suggestion, no idead if this could actually work in-game:

How about giving each independant tribal ruler of certain cultures (Cuman, Pecheneg, Magyar, etc.) a "family palace"-like holding, representing the tribe over which they rule (which may or may not be upgradeable). Every time such a ruler loses its last landed title, an event would fire which would give you the possiblity to declare war on one of a small selection of rulers (which rulers should be offered as "targets" should depend on who holds duchies which were historical places of immigration for nomads, like Hungary or Wallachia, but also some more uncommon targets like Germany or Greece). Should the nomad tribe win this war -> tribe migrates to the newly conquered lands. Should the nomads be defeated -> game over for them.

Just trowing out random ideas here, btw.
 
Issue in my opinion isn't that Maygars need buffed, but just like the fall of the Avars EVERY single game, the surrounding starting powers need nerfed a bit to balance the power so others can have a chance at survival. Bulgaria imo needs either a reduction of troops or split a few duchy's independent, Khazaria should also see the same imo. Maybe it won't be historical but for gameplay balance so others have a chance at success would help in the game being much more flexible , ( I would even like to see the " I want to be king of X unlimited CB removed ) so it isn't an instant subj of everything in the known world everywhere and takes more time to build up a Kingdom, even more so with the new start date.
 
Laur said:
Actually, that is quite historical, for the Magyar relocation to Panonia happened as a result of the defeat of their ruler, Levedi, grandfather of Arpad, by the Pechenegs (who, in turn, were fleeing westward after suffering defeat against the Khazars). It was after this defeat that the Hungarians moved westward, first on the Nistru (Dnester) at Atelcut (Etelkuzu), with the Pechenegs on their heels, and then accross the Carpathians and into Panonia.

Thus, I would like to suggest that, after a tribe is conquered (whether by another tribe or by a feudal state, does not matter), if possible, there would be a chance for event troops spawning, which would allow that tribe to relocate to a new area.
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This is a seriously serious +1. Man this would make Tribal gameplay so much fun. Start out on the edge of the eastern map, and make your tribal way towards Europe. ^^

Tribes could be given a Migration decision. In which they get event spawned troops to serve as their tribe in order to move. Once they conquer new lands, they relinquish their old lands, thus effectively moving the Tribe onwards.
 
It's always nice throwing around excellent ideas that Paradox will never implement.

I really want to take the Yabguids into Turkey and settle down as a Tengriist state, but it'll never happen.
 
omega20056 said:
Explain?
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As far as I can tell, Paradox isn't interested in the Steppes all that much, and would rather have a one-size-fits-all tribal pagan system. The fact that they've ignored the advances modders have made in this area somewhat underscore this problem.
 
Ols said:
As far as I can tell, Paradox isn't interested in the Steppes all that much, and would rather have a one-size-fits-all tribal pagan system. The fact that they've ignored the advances modders have made in this area somewhat underscore this problem.
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Well, saying Paradox cares about the Steppes, or the Balkans, or about a good Map, is like saying the Government cares about the citizens. Its the most used lie in history :). So darn sad.

For example I still cannot understand why Paradox did not implement the Faction system from CK2+ or HIP, which are net superior from Vanilla. Or the Loyalist/Rebel system, which rewards you for being a loyal vassal that helps his liege in the war!

So many great ideas and great implementations of these ideas in so many different mods, but Paradox ignores them, when all the work has already been done by the modders.

That is what I like about Space Engineers. The devs keep implementing parts of mods made by players. If a mod is good enough, they port it over into the main game.
 
Es57 said:
I think that's what the 480 start date mod is trying to implement. If I understood correctly, they have a new "migration CB" that allows tribes to invade a certain area. If they win the war, they will win the target territory, BUT lose their original provinces (vassals of other culture become independant, the other provinces get random-generated rulers.)
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What about the province culture? I'm guessing it remains the same (and generated rulers will use province culture.)
 
Pte Baldrick said:
What about the province culture? I'm guessing it remains the same (and generated rulers will use province culture.)
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That would seem logical. I mean your Tribal overlords left, and no one Tribal overlords came, than heck ya, take control of your county!
 
exin said:
That would seem logical. I mean your Tribal overlords left, and no one Tribal overlords came, than heck ya, take control of your county!
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That's not exactly "migration" though, more like viral multiplication. There's no feeling of migration if the original provinces are identical with the same culture, with the only difference being the new ruler.

(It's not like there's any simple alternatives for representing the remaining population, of course, though.)
 
Pte Baldrick said:
That's not exactly "migration" though, more like viral multiplication. There's no feeling of migration if the original provinces are identical with the same culture, with the only difference being the new ruler.

(It's not like there's any simple alternatives for representing the remaining population, of course, though.)
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What if the provinces got a modifier that depleted levies and made it so their culture/religion is instantly converted as soon as someone invades them?
 
To refer back to the title of the thread - it is, but it's really hard and luck based. If you get lucky and don't get attacked too much you can subjugate Avaria, then use tricks to get rid of the Avaria title (you can't use the form hungary decision while it exists) destroy that title by county conquest and then trigger the decision for the same effect as in 867. Then you're powerful and you can steamroll everyone as usual. I managed to get very close, but messed up and eventually lost a war to Avar controlled Transylvania which deposed me and caused Avaria to appear again under my secondary heir due to Elective Gavelkind. All on Ironman. Ugh.
 
Has anyone found a strategy on how to destroy it? I understand that I need to give it to a duke and then revoke their title. What is the best course of action...in Iron Man?
 
Laur said:
Actually, that is quite historical, for the Magyar relocation to Panonia happened as a result of the defeat of their ruler, Levedi, grandfather of Arpad, by the Pechenegs (who, in turn, were fleeing westward after suffering defeat against the Khazars). It was after this defeat that the Hungarians moved westward, first on the Nistru (Dnester) at Atelcut (Etelkuzu), with the Pechenegs on their heels, and then accross the Carpathians and into Panonia.

Thus, I would like to suggest that, after a tribe is conquered (whether by another tribe or by a feudal state, does not matter), if possible, there would be a chance for event troops spawning, which would allow that tribe to relocate to a new area.
Click to expand...

+1

SO much yes. Tribal Conquest = Take all counties of the former ruler, give him troops, send him west.
 
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