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Customizable Traditions

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Anonymous01

Anonymous01

Lt. General
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Nov 20, 2013
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I want paradox to add Customizable Traditions to CK2, meaning if something happens let's say 3 times in a row, it should become part of that country's tradition.

Example: If the last three kings of X each gave the duchy of Y to their eldest sons, it should become a tradition in the kingdom. This should be represented by (1) a line under the title's name that says 'Traditionally held by HRH the Heir Apparent,' (2) a warning in the Grant a Title diplomacy interface if the player is about to grant the title to someone other than the traditional holder, (3) perhaps a ledger sheet listing active traditions, and (4) notation in the Chronicle if/when the tradition is adhered to or broken.

Penalties for breaking traditions should include an opinion malus from the tradition's beneficiary/ies, state prestige loss, and personal prestige losses to the tradition breaker and the tradition's beneficiary/ies.

Other examples could include: The queen consort could be the traditional Spymaster of the kingdom; the head of dynasty Z could be the traditional tutor of the monarch's eldest child; the Grand Hunt could become an annual tradition; if the capital is moved and remains for X years, it could become the traditional capital (maybe the de jure capital could remain or be changed to match the traditional capital).

When paradox first announced 'Customizable Kingdoms' for the new expansion, I thought they meant players could develop the distinguishing features of their newly-created countries over time, including things like this suggestion. It seems like 'Customizable Kingdoms' is going to be largely cosmetic though, mostly involving name changes. But truly Customizable Kingdoms would add nice strategy depth to the game, and something like Customizable Traditions would be a good start.
 
Not a bad idea. But, lets say, our good Queen has a zero in spymaster-ing or the head of dynasty Z is a slothful, gluttonous, craven indulgent wastrel. I seems a bit strange to punsh people for avoiding that. But overall I like the idea, it would make both customization kingdoms and the historical ones feel more fleshed out. Not just, "oh I want to be blue this time around."
 
S. Bailly Smith said:
Not a bad idea. But, lets say, our good Queen has a zero in spymaster-ing or the head of dynasty Z is a slothful, gluttonous, craven indulgent wastrel. I seems a bit strange to punsh people for avoiding that.
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Good point. That sounds like a cool feature though. How many monarchies collapsed for just that reason? Adhere to tradition and watch your kingdom collapse under its own weight, or break the tradition and watch your country implode. CK2 nirvana.
 
I absolutely love this idea! I wish that some titles went away upon the death of the previous holder. I like giving my heir a duchy (Prince of X like situation), but I wait until he turns 16 and is married, and so sometimes I get stuck with a too-many-duchies malus because I'm still holding onto it and don't want to just destroy the title.
 
Sounds good, we could use some customary law, though I'd make its formation more gradual and soft.

Apanages are already in, in some way, in the form of close male relatives asking for titles and the prestige hit for unlanded sons.

For the record, modern England has long had the Wales (+Cornwall), York, Gloucester and Kent sequence of seniority, but other than the Principality of Wales being non-hereditary (bestowed at will, e.g. at marriage or adulthood) and the Duchy of Cornwall accruing by law to the heir at birth, they're all normal titles and can be inherited normally — meaning need to come up with other titles to be granted to younger sons. For example, Prince Harry is never going to become Duke of York, the next Duke of Gloucester will not be a prince and Royal Highness but a normal peer and only His Grace (unless they upgrade him by letters patent). In short, things change as they need to, especially if they aren't written into law.
 
NewbieOne said:
For example, Prince Harry is never going to become Duke of York
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That's only because Andrew Windsor is likely to live until William Windsor becomes king. So that york title is unlikely to be free and grantable during Charles Windsor's reign. But it will become unoccupied and re-grantable when Andrew Windsor dies. His daughters can't inherit it because they're women.
 
Quite good, hopefully they will implement something like this in the future.
 
It seems to me that succession laws and crown authority should also be part of the tradition.
After all, if you are a beloved monarch, you could try to name whoever you want to rule after you, therefor breaking the tradition and facing disapproval. But maybe establishing the bases of a new succession tradition, if you manage to keep your rule.
 
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but this seems like it would either be pretty England-centric, or might be more applicable to the EU4 timeframe.
 
So, this seems absolutely ridiculous to keep track of from a coding perspective. I'm not sure where you'd even begin to start.

Also, if a player cares about tradition from a roleplay perspective, they'll do it themselves. If they don't, they're going to complain like hell about being forced to do this in a sandbox game.

Or hey, maybe a player wants to roleplay as not having anything as a tradition - it's just stuff that happens.
 
clockworkBabbag said:
So, this seems absolutely ridiculous to keep track of from a coding perspective. I'm not sure where you'd even begin to start.
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I'm not a coder. Are you? Is simple syntax like

Code: 
Job_title = spymaster

landed_title = {tier = king}

previous_holder_until_death = ruler_spouse

plus a line in defines like 'spymaster_tradition_flag_threshold = 3' difficult in the CK2 engine? This strikes me as similar to the 'title revoked' logging the game stores to determine title opinion maluses and plotting triggers.

clockworkBabbag said:
Also, if a player cares about tradition from a roleplay perspective, they'll do it themselves. If they don't, they're going to complain like hell about being forced to do this in a sandbox game.
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This argument could be applied to nearly any feature in the game. That's what game designers do -- determine win conditions, and stack features to incentivize progression towards those win conditions. This suggestion is consistent with CK2's sandbox structure: players wouldn't have to engage the feature, but if they ignore it, the game will apply certain demerits.

clockworkBabbag said:
If they don't, they're going to complain like hell about being forced to do this in a sandbox game.

Or hey, maybe a player wants to roleplay as not having anything as a tradition - it's just stuff that happens.
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If a player weren't interested in the feature, would s/he really appoint the ruler consort spymaster-for-life three times in a row over the course of 50 to 125 game years? The answer is probably not.
 
I like the idea, but it would have to be a conscious decision on the part of the player. I wouldn't want to accidentally end up with an unfavorable tradition, which coincidentally worked well 3 generations in a row, but does not anymore.

Also, I think this option is secretly already in-game. My daughters in law always end up as my lovers :ninja:
 
Anonymous01 said:
I'm not a coder. Are you? Is simple syntax like

Code: 
Job_title = spymaster

landed_title = {tier = king}

previous_holder_until_death = ruler_spouse

plus a line in defines like 'spymaster_tradition_flag_threshold = 3' difficult in the CK2 engine? This strikes me as similar to the 'title revoked' logging the game stores to determine title opinion maluses and plotting triggers.
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Actually, yes it is difficult, because no history is kept of previous councilors, and adding it in would increase savegame file bloat and memory footprint. Not saying the devs can't do it, but considering they went to great pains to decrease memory footprint in the 2.1.5.x betas, I doubt they'd go that route.
 
I love the idea of an heir title very much, I always mod in a title like, "Prince of Orange" for example in my last Dutch Game, or "Le Dauphin" in my current game that I give to my heirs, just for some flavour. (Yes I know the titles are a little out of the timeframe, before I'm devourered.)
 
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