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JohannSig

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Jul 13, 2014
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From search results dating back to April this year I was under the impression that the problem of decadent dynasty members with gray "straighten-up" options that incur penalty if you imprison them, was to be or had already been fixed.

As an Emperor with 10 dynastically-run kingdoms beneath me I'm starting to swim in accumulated decadence :/

Is/was anything done to fix this?
 
Not a tech support issue so moved to main forum. If the community agrees it's likely to be a bug, post in Bug Reports please.
 
unless i missed that huge change, your sons are entirely off limits yes.

also, you obviously have to ask before you can imprison them. dont forget to ask.
 
If they've already been asked, have straightened up, and then later got the decadent trait again, you won't be able to ask them to straighten up and won't be able to imprison them without penalty.

I don't think it's a bug, otherwise it would make managing decadence entirely too easy. But it is annoying.
 
Bug. From my understanding they were going to fix this. Only the head of the house is supposed to be able to ask them to straighten up. And if they don't it will give you the right to imprison. From my understanding if they do straighten up and become decadent again.. go through the process again as they straighten up shouldn't be greyed out any longer.
 
Bug. From my understanding they were going to fix this. Only the head of the house is supposed to be able to ask them to straighten up. And if they don't it will give you the right to imprison. From my understanding if they do straighten up and become decadent again.. go through the process again as they straighten up shouldn't be greyed out any longer.

Well, its a mystery what Paradox intended, but as it stands you can negotiate once. If they 'straighten up' and become decadent again you (still) can't ask them to straighten up again ("[X]has not already negotiated"). Apparently backsliding is a privileged right in the CK2 muslim world.

Note that this is different to refusing to straighten up - you get a dialogue option to declare them something and they can be imprisoned without penalty.
 
I kind of feel like there should be a second chance to ask them to straighten up/invoke Tafir (sp?) after a few years (5? 10?) and after getting a new ruler (as *he* has not negotiated). With no time limit, managing decandence would be too easy (as piety is rather easy to get unless you waste it all on invasions), but having to take a tyranny hit if they become decadent again (which often happens) makes landing other branches of your dynasty a poor choice, as they *will* run out of land/council positions to give to their decadent nephews or distant kinsmen.
 
I don't think it's a bug personally, I think it's how it should be: a challenge.

What else is left to make you sweat when your empire is 10 kingdom titles huge? Muslims IMO have one of the most powerful succession laws if you have half a brain and are careful. In the late game the only real challenges are generally internal ones.
 
Muslims are the easiest religion to play with their succession laws. First of all you should not give land to family members, tutor every male member for theology and decadent members wont pop often. Hold max domain and spam retinues. In one of my games I am badshah(?) of Hispania with 12k camel warriors and having 120 tyrant isnt big deal because factions cant rise up with my levy from 8 counties + my camel warriors. Also imperial administration lets me shift between dukes.
 
Yeah I hate to say it but I think I liked the old decadence system better. I've got a 140 loyalty malus due to tyranny atm because the evil bastards are popping up 2-3/month.

I did NOT know that clerical education had any affect.

I'm sure that by now the community has come up with better ideas for decadence than what is currently in-game. All this "anyone with half a brain can easily manage decadence" doesn't help me one bit. As someone who just started playing muslims last week (after years of avoiding them) I find the rate of decadence spread within my family is something which is def pushing me to fighting revolts, and I'm assuming that I'd rather fight a tyranny war over a decadence revolt.
 
the 'has not already negotiated' happens when someone asks the decadent member,he denies,the asker invokes tafkir and doesnt imprison him...so empires get restricted to waste all gold on ASSASSINATIONSSS!
 
AFAIK clerical education has no direct effects but it then you can make them chaplain and send them off the convert some pagan tribe, after which they are usually imprisoned. That gets rid of them with no tyranny malus.
 
AFAIK clerical education has no direct effects but it then you can make them chaplain and send them off the convert some pagan tribe, after which they are usually imprisoned. That gets rid of them with no tyranny malus.

holy crap I never even thought of that!

I love these forums, you people come up with the most creative ways to kill people and get away with it!
 
It's weird, as far as the already negotiated thing goes, sometimes I get a popup saying that someone else failed negotiations, so you can freely imprison, and sometimes I don't, and imprisoning costs me tyranny. Which to me speaks of it being a bug, unless there's some conditions for the popup I don't understand. Personally I really like the decadence trait, but it does need to be debugged pretty badly.
 
AFAIK clerical education has no direct effects but it then you can make them chaplain and send them off the convert some pagan tribe, after which they are usually imprisoned. That gets rid of them with no tyranny malus.

Code:
# IMPORTANT EVENT
# Muslim gains the Decadent Trait

character_event = {
	id = 91300
	desc = EVTDESC91300
	picture = GFX_evt_sultan
	
	only_men = yes
	min_age = 16
	capable_only = yes
	prisoner = no
	
	trigger = {
		num_of_dynasty_members = 3 # Does not trigger for tiny dynasties
		religion_group = muslim
		NOT = { trait = decadent }
		NOT = { trait = zealous }
		NOT = { trait = mujahid }
		lower_tier_than = KING
	}
	
	mean_time_to_happen = {
		months = 120
		
		modifier = {
			factor = 0.5
			trait = indulgent_wastrel
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 0.75
			trait = naive_appeaser
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 0.75
			trait = amateurish_plotter
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 0.25
			trait = hedonist
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 0.5
			trait = homosexual
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 0.5
			trait = gluttonous
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 0.5
			trait = slothful
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 0.5
			trait = bad_priest_muslim
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 0.75
			trait = cynical
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 0.75
			trait = lustful
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 0.75
			trait = arbitrary
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 3.0
			trait = chaste
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 3.0
			trait = just
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 10.0
			trait = diligent
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 10.0
			trait = temperate
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 2.0
			trait = faqih
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 5.0
			trait = hafiz
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 10.0
			trait = ashari
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 2.0
			trait = detached_priest
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 4.0
			trait = martial_cleric
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 8.0
			trait = scholarly_theologian
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 10.0
			trait = mastermind_theologian
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 2.5
			tier = BARON
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 10.0
			tier = COUNT
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 20.0
			tier = DUKE
		}
	}
	
	option = {
		name = EVTOPTA91300
		add_trait = decadent
		
		hidden_tooltip = {
			any_dynasty_member = {
				limit = {
					ai = no
				}
				character_event = {
					id = 91370
					days = 1
				}
			}
		}
	}
}