Unit values

All those 'vulnerabilities' values do not represent armor, or the general defensive capacity of a unit.

It's a 'trick' found by the developers to address one of the biggest problems of the HoI combat engine. In pre 1.03 DH, if you attack with 30 divs a province that is defended by one infantry division, the 30 attacking division can all 'fire' at the lone defending guy. Not only is this unrealistic (there's not enough physical space for 30 divisions to attack one), but it also creates a gameplay problem by rewarding 'doom stacks'

To counter this issue, the devs have created this concept of 'Vulnerability', which lowers the damage received by units that are in severe numerical disadvantage.

Read this DD if you want to understand more in-depth how it works.

Now regarding why INF has more vulnerability than CAV, i have no idea, and i find this as confusing as you.

The units and doctrines aren't balanced from WWI to WWII. Thats whay 1870 cavalry is better than 1933 cavalry. The game isn't meant to be played from WWI to WWII. Its better to keep WWI units until like the 1945 models for infantry if I remember correctly. 1870 wasn't meant to be balanced against 1960 cavalry.

I've always believed it was the ability for the enemy to hit your tank. A StuG III has a defensive vulnerability of -5, while a panzer III has one of -3. As for cavalry being the same as tanks, a mob of men on horses? Or a mob of big noisy metal things? Which is easier to spot? If anything, I suggest that the tank is easier to spot on the offensive, hence why cavalry is better for that. However, do not forget hard and soft attack. Even though you've spotted it, can you kill it? This is where softness comes into play. Sure a tank is easy to spot, but try shooting it with only rifled infantry. Could it work? Probably not. Hence why you research anti tank artillery and other such things, and why 1870s cavalry still dies a lot faster. I'm sure my explanation is flawed, but it fits, sort of.

There is something strange going on with the brigades too. Armored car brigade reduces defensive/offensive vulnerability more than tank brigades. Softness bonus of tank brigades also feels a bit small, compared to the armored cars, 2% vs 5% for medium tanks. Result is that an infantry division even with 2 tank brigades is "softer" than a motorised division with no tanks at all - 92% vs 85% minimum. Logically, such division should be approaching an actual armoured division in softness, just a lot less useful due to low mobility.

Also, what's the actual justification of making a motorised division less soft than an ordinary infantry division, unless it has some form of armour attached? It's just men on trucks, perfectly vulnerable to all sorts of weapons.

Trax said:

Also, what's the actual justification of making a motorised division less soft than an ordinary infantry division, unless it has some form of armour attached? It's just men on trucks, perfectly vulnerable to all sorts of weapons.

Click to expand...

APC (Armored Personnal Carrier) and IVF (Infantry Fighting Vehicule) ? Modern Motorised Inf Div is kind of a mechanised division but without MBT squadrons.

Beryl said:

APC (Armored Personnal Carrier) and IVF (Infantry Fighting Vehicule) ? Modern Motorised Inf Div is kind of a mechanised division but without MBT squadrons.

Click to expand...

That's mechanised, I think. Motorised in the classical sense is just men on trucks. The game seems to agree because the equipment list ingame does not include any.

equipment = { manpower = 13000 trucks = 2860 horses = 1860 artillery = 66 heavy_artillery = 8 anti_tank = 32 anti_air = 54 armored_car = 32 }

I'm not sure those aren't very accurate. For example what are the horses doing there? If there really are horsedrawn units there then the early motorised division should be a lot slower.

I made a quick mod where mainly the defensive/offensive/air vulnrabilities and softness are adjusted to seemingly more logical values. There I gave the early motorised a softness of 98%. 2% off for that handful of armoured cars.

Trax said:

I made a quick mod where mainly the defensive/offensive/air vulnrabilities and softness are adjusted to seemingly more logical values. There I gave the early motorised a softness of 98%. 2% off for that handful of armoured cars.

Click to expand...

You should share it

Trax said:

That's mechanised, I think. Motorised in the classical sense is just men on trucks. The game seems to agree because the equipment list ingame does not include any.

equipment = { manpower = 13000 trucks = 2860 horses = 1860 artillery = 66 heavy_artillery = 8 anti_tank = 32 anti_air = 54 armored_car = 32 }

I'm not sure those aren't very accurate. For example what are the horses doing there? If there really are horsedrawn units there then the early motorised division should be a lot slower.

I made a quick mod where mainly the defensive/offensive/air vulnrabilities and softness are adjusted to seemingly more logical values. There I gave the early motorised a softness of 98%. 2% off for that handful of armoured cars.

Click to expand...

Horses is for supply baggage following the division, not for people. Equipment numbers is mixed due to the fact that some of these categories represent different quality equipment. You can't rely on numbers alone. I think they were based off of German divisions though.

Vulnerability values were tested with game balance in mind to achieve historical losses iirc. More mobility is also a factor in vulnerability. Vulnerability doesn't just represent armor. Aside from surviving a hit, dodging one is perfectly viable as well.

More mobility is also a factor in vulnerability. Vulnerability doesn't just represent armor. Aside from surviving a hit, dodging one is perfectly viable as well.

Click to expand...

I understood that this must be the reason for lower vulnerability for mobile units so I kept it lower for mobile units, I only increased it for (horse) cavalry so now it falls between ordinary infantry and motorised. I also reduced it for later semi motorised infantry so they no longer have the same vulnerability as 1870 infantry division. I also increased the air vulnerability of cavalry and earlier units that have little to no AA.

You should share it

Click to expand...

The changes were largely based on the gut feeling and are in no way scientific. I haven't even played with it yet.
I mostely wanted to make the tank brigades more useful, tanks should be something highly desireable, not something you never want to build unless you can build an entire division of them.

The numbers I chose for softness are taken from the air of course and based on the equipment described ingame - following the principle of "what you see is what you get".

I applied 1% reduction in softness for every:

25HT
20AC
10LA
7MA
3HA
1SHA

Note:
I changed it so that light armored brigade/division is now equiped with light_armor nor medium_armor.

I repeat, these are arbitrary, and someone else would probably use different numbers.
Anyway, if someone wants to take a look, here it is.

https://www.mediafire.com/?y3djxamh80s3mrd