Dutch strategy - is it a good idea to go for Japan?

Carolingian

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• Mar 21, 2014

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• #1

I've played numerous games as both, and the Dutch have an extremely easy time getting to GP power with their current rgo's (i generally also manage to annex belgium, the UK really isn't good for anything), but I am and have been wondering if it's a good idea, or even possible, to take maybe the lower state, the one with Nagasaki (blanking on the name.)
Edit: My main concern is that it's really not called the Empire of the Rising Sun for nothing. They'll kill me.

 

A

alexti

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• Mar 22, 2014

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• #2

Carolingian said:

Dutch strategy - is it a good idea to go for Japan?

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Yes. There are several good states in Japan. One with the gold and then 2 to the south of it, I think. If you're lucky with CD generation you can get all 3, otherwise 2. Defeating them is easy - you have naval superiority, so just conquer Hokkaido first and then seal their armies there.

 

Baron Bailey

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• Mar 22, 2014

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• #3

If I were you, I'd go for the Spanish Philippines, Taiwan, and then Pacific colonisation.
It keeps your Asian Empire more central, plus Spain is pretty much a pushover in military terms but only if you act quickly.
If you colonise the Pacific you can also block Japan if it too tries to expand there once westernised.
Siam is another option too or if you want to act in the same region as Japan attack the sleeping giant that is China!

 

Icendoan

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• Mar 22, 2014

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• #4

The Netherlands needs coal and iron, even with Belgium. Annex Korea and Manchuria, they are good. Otherwise, Dai Nam for the Silk, and parts of Japan with Cotton are best.

 

Thanik

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• Mar 22, 2014

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• #5

Yes, it is good idea. They have good population, and rgo.
But usually you have no pops assimilation there (similar to Korea, or Manchuria) there, so no more factories...

 

A

alexti

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• Mar 22, 2014

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• #6

Thanik said:

Yes, it is good idea. They have good population, and rgo.
But usually you have no pops assimilation there (similar to Korea, or Manchuria) there, so no more factories...

Click to expand...

You can convert Japanese land to states around 1880 or so and start building factories there. I think Korea is convertible even quicker, but in Japan you'll get much more educated worker.

 

Thanik

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• Mar 23, 2014

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• #7

alexti said:

You can convert Japanese land to states around 1880 or so and start building factories there. I think Korea is convertible even quicker, but in Japan you'll get much more educated worker.

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Japanese pops in Japan, or Korean in Korea will not assimilate becouse they have cores there. So I always thought it is impossible.

 

Encak

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• Mar 23, 2014

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• #8

Yes it is, just don't wait around for them to Westernize. I did it as the two scicilies at one point so it i'm sure you can do it as the Netherlands pretty easily.

 

PanH

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• Mar 23, 2014

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• #9

Encak said:

Yes it is, just don't wait around for them to Westernize. I did it as the two scicilies at one point so it i'm sure you can do it as the Netherlands pretty easily.

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How did you do it then, since there's no assimilation ? Luck and colonial migration ? Rebellion ?

 

Encak

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• Mar 23, 2014

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• #10

PanH said:

How did you do it then, since there's no assimilation ? Luck and colonial migration ? Rebellion ?

Click to expand...

It's been a long time since I played that campaign but from what I remember I took a part of the Philippines from Spain and then brought all my army/ navy over there and declared war on Japan. I blockaded everything and dropped off troops on the southeast Island and killed their armies when I pleased and took very little casualties. I don't think I remember being able to turn any of it into states though.

 

mbrasher1

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• Mar 23, 2014

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• #11

I suppose it depends on what you are looking for. Will you be taking the whole of Japan or only a bit? If you only take a bit, you might end up with a pissed off, Westernized GP Japan that will attack you whenever it gets the chance and you are distracted elsewhere. I find that the Chinese states are nearly always better than Japan: they have bigger populations, more room for growth, and you can always get more of China for relatively less infamy than a Japanese state after it Westernizes.

Why Japan over China?

 

Encak

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• Mar 23, 2014

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• #12

mbrasher1 said:

I suppose it depends on what you are looking for. Will you be taking the whole of Japan or only a bit? If you only take a bit, you might end up with a pissed off, Westernized GP Japan that will attack you whenever it gets the chance and you are distracted elsewhere. I find that the Chinese states are nearly always better than Japan: they have bigger populations, more room for growth, and you can always get more of China for relatively less infamy than a Japanese state after it Westernizes.

Why Japan over China?

Click to expand...

Looks funny

 

Avocado Aguila

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• Mar 23, 2014

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• #13

go for China.

 

Thanik

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• Mar 23, 2014

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• #14

And finally I got answer. But Ithink it is very GAMEY (aka cheat):

1. Wait for time when Japan or China have 90% westernization progress .
2. DoW them, and add wargoal for few provinces .
3. Wait for westernize.
4. When they westernize take provinces in peace - you will gain state, instead of colonies, and you paid 5 infamy for each one.

But with this tactic, "converting" whole Japan or China into states is still impossible.
Unless they have 5 provinces, and you have nationalism and imperialism discovered.

 

Secret Master

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• Mar 23, 2014

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• #15

I agree with others. You need the coal and iron. Japan has coal and iron and silk, but you can also get it from China/Korea.

If you don't think you can take Japan or China on in military terms, annexing Indochina (Siam, Dai Nam, and all those countries) can net you a good amount of rubber to supplement your own rubber production when the time comes.

 

unmerged(348018)

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• Mar 24, 2014

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• #16

Get ready to have a tiny percentage of your population to be accepted though because the Dutch sure don't have alot of primary pops...

 

Carolingian

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• Mar 24, 2014

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• #17

I'll take this all into consideration next time I play Dutch - for now I'm working on an Ottoman Empire (who needs an East Indies empire.. hmm..)
My primary concerns are a westernized Japan's military, and the massive population, and then the not being able to convert them to states. I'm not sure if the gamey method works as mentioned above, especially because very few of my games actually make it to 1880. :laugh:

 

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El Jojo

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• Mar 26, 2014

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• #18

The gamey method works, if a nation westernize during the war you get regular states but since infamy is paid when the wargoal is added and not when the peace treaty is signed you'll get states for 5 infamy a piece. It's not always a good thing since getting a huge illiterate Chinese state will kill your literacy.
Japan is better because they have better literacy. So, in fact you should take concessions from Japan until they're small enough to use an establish protectorate CB, declare just before they westernize and you'll annex them for 10 infamy (max!)

 

mbrasher1

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• Mar 26, 2014

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• #19

Short of loading as the nation in question, how do you determine that they have 90% westernization progress? I can only see in the diplomacy screen that they are uncivilized (<50% progress) and partially westernized (>50% progress).

 

LordSolar

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• Mar 26, 2014

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• #20

There is a map mode in which you can see if a nation is civilized or not. If you hover the mouse over an uncivilized nation you can see the percentage