How do I do this? One time I accidentally inherited the ERE as Russia, gave it back to one of my sons but the Varangians stayed a Russian vassal. Is it possible to do this with the patriarch somehow?
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Vassalizing Ecumenical Patriarch
- Thread starter Khezef
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Haven’t tested, but I believe you can give your son a despot title, then transfer the vassalage of the duke-level Varangian guard, then give him the ERE. I do not believe this is directly possible for the Ecumenical Patriarch, as only an emperor can have him as a vassal, and an emperor cannot have another emperor as vassal to transfer vassalage. You should be able to: grant the Patriarch independence as Russia, give the Hagia Sophia to an Orthodox bishop as the Basileos, and he will then hand the church over to the Ecumenical Patriarch.
If that doesn’t work, you should be able to simply give the title k_orthodox to one of his vassal bishops in the console and call it Caesaropapacy.
If that doesn’t work, you should be able to simply give the title k_orthodox to one of his vassal bishops in the console and call it Caesaropapacy.
I actually want to do it the other way, take it from ERE and give it to Russia. I might try that though, I didnt know you could move the patriarch's title with console.
Another alternate way is to take the bishopric of Constantinople yourself (as the Byzantine Emperor) and then give it to a random courtier. In about a month, the Patriarchate will reform thus the actual Ecumenical Patriarch will claim the holding. Another option is, if you don't want to use console, is make him independent. Whoever the emperor of the Byzantine Empire is will attack him and claim the holding where after a month the same thing as described above will happen.
I am having this same issue but it also applies to the Pope. For both Pope and EC I can use the counsel to assign the title to a vassal but it then automatically makes the character no longer my vassal, this situation happens even if I account for all the other factors like ensuring I am an emperor, etc. Is it only possible that the Pope can only be a vassal of the HRE and the EP to be a vassal of the ERE? That seems to be the only conclusion I can rationalize.
For the Papacy, the only way to vassalize them is to to claim it with an Antipope as an Emperor while for the Patriarchate, simply giving a random courtier the bishopric of Constantinople will result in a reformation where the Emperor becomes the new liege for the Ecumenical Patriarch.
So this effectively means it is impossible to vassalize the Pope if he becomes unlanded (since there would be no way to "conquer" him and impose the antipope).
What is the console name for the churchof constantinople? b_constantinople gives me the entire county for some reason, and c_constantinople doesnt work at all.
Your intuition is correct, it is b_constantinople. Both Rome and Constantinople are hardcoded such that the barony-level title with the same name as the county title is in fact the primary bishopric of the county. As I am sure you know this situation occurs often -- except that usually the barony-level title is an actual barony.
What is happening to you could be due to several different things but the overall issue is that both counties are starting from theocracy as a default. You can give title to a county by either 1) giving actual title to the county (give_title c_countyname charid#) or 2) by giving title to the primary holding in that county (give_title b_holdingname charid#). If you elect the second option you can force the receiving character to take title to the county using an incorrect holding type. In your case b_roma/constantinople is currently the primary holding so what you need to do is 1) change the primary holding then 2) give title to the bishopric as desired.
For Roma, for example, get the charid# for the holder of the barony of Tivoli, then use the counsel to give that character the title to the entire county, then separately give your desired recipient title to the bishopric of Rome after that transaction. That should do the trick. The primary title is now b_tivoli so the entire county should not change hands when b_roma does. Same strategy applies to Constantinople.
You can always give land to your own religious head. So if you're a Catholic, you can give a bishopric to the Pope, only to take it away from him later.
He becomes independent because the king-level title you just gave him is both independent of you and his new primary title. I wonder if you could give yourself the title and then grant it?
Presumably he orders the new bishop of Constantinople to give him his cathedral back.