T-34s at the moment are about 1/4th the strength of the german equivalent.

vcgetdown

Major

81 Badges

May 25, 2010

732

29

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

• Jan 20, 2013

• Add bookmark
• #1

Is there a reason for this? T-34s('41) can not stand up whatsoever to german tanks, even the '39 medium tanks, I get why russian tank divisions are weaker in general, but it does seem pretty ahistorical to have t-34s at the same hard attack as some regular, nonbrigaded infantry.

http://imgur.com/yCvGJqU

Just take a look at that image to see the massive gap in strength between the two nation's tanks. This is largely in part due to +15 hard attack from german doctrines, but at the same time, the t34 is hampered by a -3 hard attack malus from their doctrines.

Summary for anybody coming into this topic that needs to be read: T-34 has a hard attack of 5, 1935 motorized infantry's hard attack of 4 and the panzer IV has a hard attack of 23. How is this balanced? Soviet armor is 100% worthless

EDIT: At request of the developers, could a mod close this topic for off topic?

 

Last edited: Jan 22, 2013

vcgetdown

Major

81 Badges

May 25, 2010

732

29

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

• Jan 20, 2013

• Add bookmark
• #2

I also believe that the german light armor would defeat a t-34 in a straight 1v1.

 

Pasha

Field Marshal

2 Badges

May 26, 2005

2.853

479

• 
• 

• Jan 20, 2013

• Add bookmark
• #3

And yet another thread arguing that (Insert Nation) Tank is superior to (Insert Nation) Tank and this should be reflected in the game.

Simple answer that you're not going to like: This is a Strategic simulation game and not a Tactical game. Appropriate land doctrines and leaders will allow your armoured divisions to perform better.

 

RealityGuy

Marshall

Jan 12, 2013

917

214

www.youtube.com

• Jan 20, 2013

• Add bookmark
• #4

as soviet union you dont really need to build tanks. Spam inf and you win.

 

vcgetdown

Major

81 Badges

May 25, 2010

732

29

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

• Jan 20, 2013

• Add bookmark
• #5

Pasha said:

And yet another thread arguing that (Insert Nation) Tank is superior to (Insert Nation) Tank and this should be reflected in the game.

Simple answer that you're not going to like: This is a Strategic simulation game and not a Tactical game. Appropriate land doctrines and leaders will allow your armoured divisions to perform better.

Click to expand...

I would be happy if the soviet armor was the same as the germans. It's not.

http://imgur.com/yCvGJqU

How can you defend the t34 (and only the t34, only soviets get this malus) having such abysmal stats? On top of having a weaker doctrine in general with low GDE.

 

Last edited: Jan 20, 2013

Pasha

Field Marshal

2 Badges

May 26, 2005

2.853

479

• 
• 

• Jan 20, 2013

• Add bookmark
• #6

LOL....Somebody's angry!

And you mentioned nothing about doctrines in your initial post.

 

vcgetdown

Major

81 Badges

May 25, 2010

732

29

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

• Jan 20, 2013

• Add bookmark
• #7

Do you believe that the soviet medium armor having hard attacks of 4('39)/5('41) is historically accurate? I brought up the t-34 because in the game terms one panzer IV division is as effective at damaging hard targets as 5 t-34 divisions

 

vcgetdown

Major

81 Badges

May 25, 2010

732

29

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

• Jan 20, 2013

• Add bookmark
• #8

Pasha said:

LOL....Somebody's angry!

And you mentioned nothing about doctrines in your initial post.

Click to expand...

What did you think I was talking about? I specifically mentioned that the t-34 has the same hard attack as infantry, the only possible reason for that is thanks to the soviet doctrine. You then brushed it off suggesting that the t-34s doing as much hard attack as infantry was intended and how the game should be. Once again, I never said the t-34 should be better than x tank, I said it's pathetically gimped, it can not stand up versus any nation's tanks, thanks to the soviet doctrine, which is ahistorical.

 

Limith

Modding for Myself

18 Badges

Apr 7, 2010

3.741

369

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

• Jan 20, 2013

• Add bookmark
• #9

Ger armor bonuses from land doctrines have been reduced for the final patch.

 

vcgetdown

Major

81 Badges

May 25, 2010

732

29

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

• Jan 20, 2013

• Add bookmark
• #10

Limith said:

Ger armor bonuses from land doctrines have been reduced for the final patch.

Click to expand...

That is one side of it, but there still remains that the russian tank malus from doctrines makes them the worst tanks in the game by far. What is the reasoning for making soviet tanks so abysmal against armor?

 

vcgetdown

Major

81 Badges

May 25, 2010

732

29

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

• Jan 20, 2013

• Add bookmark
• #11

Here is an image showing just how awful the soviet armor is.

http://imgur.com/yCvGJqU

I don't think anybody would defend the t34 (and the t34 alone, only the soviets get the malus) only having a hard attack of 5.



One random thing to point out: I assume this has been fixed, limith, but the 1935 mot lose 1 hard attack when upgraded to 1939(from 4 to 3 hard attack), and don't really gain anything (IIRC)

 

Beryl

First Lieutenant

21 Badges

Nov 11, 2001

239

11

Visit site

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

• Jan 20, 2013

• Add bookmark
• #12

Russian tanks in general and T-34 in particular had some good qualities (slopped armor, gun caliber, large tracks adapted to muddy/snowy weather...) but had also serious design flaw like a two man turret, weak optics and poor vision devices reducing their Fire Control Effect.
See this

 

Beryl

First Lieutenant

21 Badges

Nov 11, 2001

239

11

Visit site

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

• Jan 20, 2013

• Add bookmark
• #13

(post deleted)

 

vcgetdown

Major

81 Badges

May 25, 2010

732

29

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

• Jan 20, 2013

• Add bookmark
• #14

Beryl said:

If I open the 1941 scenario, T34 have an hard attack of 8 (11-3). Your value of 5 seems to be a bug.

Click to expand...

I just loaded it up myself and the russian '41 tanks in game all have 5 hard attack. The '41 scenario does have the russians with the '43 med arm already researched(also a t-34) which does have 8 hard attack. Is that the tank you were looking at? You can look at the '41 armor in the field to see they all have 5 hard attack.

 

Eh up me duck

Lt. General

32 Badges

May 2, 2012

1.465

591

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

• Jan 20, 2013

• Add bookmark
• #15

...why are you building tanks as the Soviet Union?

 

Beryl

First Lieutenant

21 Badges

Nov 11, 2001

239

11

Visit site

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

• Jan 20, 2013

• Add bookmark
• #16

Yes I saw my error and tried to correct my post, but toot late

 

vcgetdown

Major

81 Badges

May 25, 2010

732

29

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

• Jan 20, 2013

• Add bookmark
• #17

JoeIsGreat said:

...why are you building tanks as the Soviet Union?

Click to expand...

Because just building infantry is way too op and makes for a boring game. Also, I like annexing finland before the peace event fires, giving me a nice puppet to have. Hard to do that without a significant armored spearhead. I also like the idea of letting zhukov and konev have some t34 divisions to fight the germans with, it was just unexpected how incapable they were going to be to face the german armor. I had about 20 armor divisions and it made the game a lot tougher because I assumed my tank divisions could handle the tank armies of the germans when it turns out they are 100% useless to face enemy armor with. Still mass produced infantry and won without worry but there is no reason to have soviet armor so gimped imo.

 

vcgetdown

Major

81 Badges

May 25, 2010

732

29

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

• Jan 20, 2013

• Add bookmark
• #18

Beryl said:

Yes I saw my error and tried to correct my post, but toot late

Click to expand...

It was an easy mistake to make, I honestly believed you over and me and started to worry if I did have a bug when you said that. 5 hard attack seems so low even with -3 malus.

 

Pasha

Field Marshal

2 Badges

May 26, 2005

2.853

479

• 
• 

• Jan 20, 2013

• Add bookmark
• #19

vcgetdown said:

Here is an image showing just how awful the soviet armor is.

http://imgur.com/yCvGJqU

I don't think anybody would defend the t34 (and the t34 alone, only the soviets get the malus) only having a hard attack of 5.



One random thing to point out: I assume this has been fixed, limith, but the 1935 mot lose 1 hard attack when upgraded to 1939(from 4 to 3 hard attack), and don't really gain anything (IIRC)

Click to expand...

Wow, you're right, that's pretty ridiculous. Makes building Soviet Armour quite pointless. Sorry I misunderstood your initial post.

 

vcgetdown

Major

81 Badges

May 25, 2010

732

29

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

• Jan 20, 2013

• Add bookmark
• #20

Limith said:

Ger armor bonuses from land doctrines have been reduced for the final patch.

Click to expand...

Ok I apologize, I knew the ger armor bonuses were nice, but I didn't realize that they got +15 hard attack from a single tech. Fixing that would go a long way, for sure. Definitely more of the issue than the -3 soviet malus