Rebirth of the Forgotten Continent

[ncm]

While Imperator Graetius was inaugurated with a gallon of wine, Pavo had tended to a spice deal. Now, he quietly returned, the voracious stink of curry tracing his steps.

Pavo mumbled, staring at the floor, "Gentlemen, let us enslave the Urollans and draw the civilised sphere of Atlantis ever closer, toward our destiny of unification and all that."

[quicksabre]

((Commanders have a vote so long as they are in Atlantis, though I guess there could always be a proxy. Also, to make things easier all cabinet members are level fives unless they tell me they want to be lower for RP reasons. Just sort of cuts out debate.))

(( So if commanders are assigned to an army or navy not in Atlantis they get no vote? That is amazing. ))

[Riccardo93]

Vulpis, after listening carefully to Krupt's speech, rises slowly and clears his throat just above the the murmuring Senators...

I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of the current Urrolan conflict; we must not foolishly regard ourselves invincible... the Oligarchy did just that, and look at it now... Our men are indeed capable, the finest men of their generation, but we know next to nothing about the full strength of our great rivals, or what actions our other neighbours might take during this conflict...

As for slavery, in my own personal opinion, it is an abominable system, and should eventually end; however, now is not the time, and the only courses of action I would support would be more restrictions on purchasing slaves, and to ensure they are not mistreated. Over the years, ideally, the institution would slowly be abolished, and a freer system would take its place.

I also wish to express my support for a professional army and a strong, fortified border. On the latter, I trust that the Krupt and Othollo families, and other families like them, would be best suited to placing them, and with strong garrisons, would be able to maintain them effectively. On the former, I must stress that we must ensure that the generals of these armies do not gain so much power as to attempt to do away with our Republican institutions, either by mandating a system of replacement (that is, a general can only command for a certain amount of time, and will be replaced upon expiration), and other such checks on their influence.

[Mr. Capiatlist]

(( So if commanders are assigned to an army or navy not in Atlantis they get no vote? That is amazing. ))

((As of now, sure. If the general mood is that it is being over-used. I will have to reconsider. I want it to have a Roman feel, but I don't want people to be pushed under the rug. Though I guess putting them in charge wins them admiration and loyal troops.

Also (and this is not aimed at anyone in particular), please remember that discussing game rules is against the rules. I understand that it is complicated as EU3 is definitely not designed for this sort of thing. So we'll have some growing pains. So please let us try to keep on task and let me worry about expanding the rules.))

[Chlorna]

Solangus enters the Forum, his head horribly aching from the Eurpan wine. He takes a quick bow to his fellow senators and sits. As he cradles his head, he can't help but feel several eyes burrowing into his skull from the Populares.

Solangus composes himself, it is unbecoming of a senator to appear sickly. As he does so, he cannot help but smell curry.

[theAhawk]

Senator Smigt cannot help nodding in agreement as Vulpis is talking. He agrees with his views on matters like slavery and the border. It was a shame that his head was by the end shaking horizontally instead. He stood and spoke clearly:

"I must object to the notion that our generals should be time limited. Surely the most able soldiers and best leaders should be able to continue serving their country and risking their life for us as long as they wish. It is nonsense to dismiss the best orator as an advocate just because he has presented a certain number of cases or the fastest writer as a secretary on the grounds that he has written a set number of characters. This suggestion not only puts our brave troops in danger of incompetent leadership, but undermines the system of meritocracy that both main parties have been keen to promote.

"Moreover, where should such a rule end; if you want to limit generals, why not lieutenants, captains or infantry? How is it preferable to have scared inexperienced troops only looking to end their time on the front to hardy ones who fight professionally? Would you extend this rule to Imperators and deny the country the leadership it requires? Would you extend it to judges and deny citizens a fair trial? Would you extend it to scholars and ensure we lose the knowledge of our forefathers? No; this proposed rule is nonsense and should not be taken any further.

"Personally, the best way I can see to reduce the influence of the Army would be to deny military leaders a voice in congress, requiring that they relinquish their command when they cross the threshold of the city, and should not be able to regain that on their departure without the consent of congress. Furthermore, I would keep a reserve of troops stationed in the city under the control of congress to prevent meddling by military force, and protect our fair city from attack."

[Riccardo93]

As Smight finishes speaking, Vulpis rises again

I understand your concerns; they are valid and, if what you were saying were the case, would be a very real threat. However, when I say generals must be replaced, perhaps it would be more accurate to say 'swapped.' We have many superb commanders, and since we have a rather small army, it would make sense to ensure that no one general gain too much authority, or complete control over their men. Furthermore, to alleviate your concerns, generals would not be replaced during the midst of a war, if only to ensure that the armies are kept under stable leadership during the entire conflict.

When it comes to rank, lieutenants and other such ranks are not apt to have the influence, or the numbers, to launch a coup or uprising; generals, however, can command thousands of men at a time, and pose a real threat to the Republic. For Imperators, they are elected, and can remain at their post so long as they have the support to justify a continued administration. For judges, I can see some reason to create term limits, if only to ensure that any extended stay in a particular office would lead to corruption; however, to have them appointed at the discretion of a leader, particularly a corrupt one, is disconcerting.

On your last points, I agree with ordering them to relinquish a command as they enter the city; however, I suggest allowing keep a small retinue, if only to ensure they are kept safe. As for denying them a voice in the Senate, I disagree with that notion; are they not Atlantean citizens? Do they not protect our city and the rights we enjoy? Rights that they would not have access to? As for the reserve, I find that most agreeable, as we have seen, quite recently, that the city must be protected at all times.

[Syriana]

Caesennia Caprica

Female, 35

Physical Description: 5"7', black hair, green eyes.
Race: Azlanti
Diety: Tordem
Birthplace: Atlantis
Profession: Finance magnate

Finance laid the foundations of the House of Caprica. When the family first arrived in Atlantis City, they were impoverished and unknown; migrant labourers driven from the countryside to seek opportunities in the cityscape. Now, they dominate the financial sphere, providing loans and insurances to all the great houses and guilds of Atlantis. The Capricas control the purse strings of the continent. The family has become fabulously wealthy, using their affluence to ingratiate themselves with the noble houses that once regarded them with scorn. Caesennia Caprica, however, was the first family member to make the leap from finance to politics. Through her trade links and contacts, Caprica is well-travelled and well-known, making her an able diplomat. She favours peaceful policies to ensure the continuance of trade and good relations with the neighbours; a strong army to safeguard the homeland; and devolved, decentralised government to protect civic privileges.

Political Leaning: A private supporter of the Mercator faction, although sympathetic to some of the policies espoused by the Populares.

Adviser Type: Diplomat

[theAhawk]

Senator Smigt once more rises;

"As you well know judges are already circulated amongst courts on their level, be it local or national, with their yearly office drawn by lot; I, for example, am overseeing the extortion court this year. This was one of the reforms I managed to push through in the years before the death of the King, as I fought corruption within the judiciary. Now, I see none in my workplace and I wish to ensure that no other service is blighted like mine was some thirty years ago.

"After that small clarification, I wish to make another! I agree with you that swapping commands for such an effect I have just described would be desirable, as would stability during wartime, but I do not agree with your idea for a retinue. I admit I may not have made myself crystal-clear, but, once they enter the city without military powers, I see no reason to deny them a voice in the senate, for they then wouldn't be able to return to their command without the approval of the senate. As a senator they then gain a group of lictors to act as bodyguards, so there is no need for a retinue. It is my opinion that there should be no proxy votes for senators active in the field. Their influence should be either military or political, but never both."

[LeeroyJenkins]

Caesennia Caprica

Female, 35

Physical Description: 5"7', black hair, green eyes.
Race: Azlanti
Diety: Tordem
Birthplace: Atlantis
Profession: Finance magnate

Finance laid the foundations of the House of Caprica. When the family first arrived in Atlantis City, they were impoverished and unknown; migrant labourers driven from the countryside to seek opportunities in the cityscape. Now, they dominate the financial sphere, providing loans and insurances to all the great houses and guilds of Atlantis. The Capricas control the purse strings of the continent. The family has become fabulously wealthy, using their affluence to ingratiate themselves with the noble houses that once regarded them with scorn. Caesennia Caprica, however, was the first family member to make the leap from finance to politics. Through her trade links and contacts, Caprica is well-travelled and well-known, making her an able diplomat. She favours peaceful policies to ensure the continuance of trade and good relations with the neighbours; a strong army to safeguard the homeland; and devolved, decentralised government to protect civic privileges.

Political Leaning: A private supporter of the Mercator faction, although sympathetic to some of the policies espoused by the Populares.

Adviser Type: Diplomat

((Welcome Syrianna, glad to see yet another member of the Victoria 2 AARs to join the game))

[Mr. Capiatlist]

The Vox Populi

The first election in Atlantis since the fall of the Republic millennia ago contained in it all the emotions of the last. At first it seemed like three parties were going to divide everything squarely and lock the congress into perpetual filibuster when two of the parties shot out far ahead: The Populares, presenting the common man and the interests of expansion and Pan-Atlantism; and the Mercators, representing the wealthy merchants and entrepreneurs. The Optimates, representing the old elite, fell flat, the people of the republic remember all too freshly the fall of the monarchy and the return of the republic. While the two parties began to inch ahead, a division within the Mercators became apparent especially focused on the treatment of other Atlanteans. This helped the Populares steam ahead and win an absolute majority in the elections.

Newly elected Imperatar, Graetius Tauronian, quickly went setting up his cabinet: focusing on expanding the military with the introduction of 6,000 new soldier to the army, the appointment of two military leaders to the cabinet, and the promise of uncompromising war against the hordes to the west. This matched perfectly the will of the people who wanted to see the horde's land colonized. It seemed that things we looking like they would settle down quickly, but soon the debate began to grow, quickly dividing the people of Atlantis: was it enough to conquer the other Atlantean states or how would they be brought into line with the Republican ideal? Many found the idea of enslaving their fellow Atlanteans repulsive to say the least while others argued that they were deserving of the fate for resisting unity. Would this be something the the parties to rally around? Or would is drive deeper divisions between the social gaps?

Victory seemed assured against foreign enemies, but domestic problems seemed to creep up on the new government. But with one election down and power successfully handed over from the transitional congress to the Populares, only eights years remained to see if Graetius Tauronian and his party truly struck a chord with the people of Atlantis or if it was a one-time gig.



((My plan is, because I can only scan the posts and though I do try to read everything, I don't really have time to completely get what is going on. Instead, I am going to do Vox Pop updates. More formal ones like this will pop up before and after elections. But my goal is to represent the people. I'll use Vox Pops to convey in-game events to you guys here. without breaking the "flow". For those out of the loop "vox pop" comes from vox populi in Latin meaning "Voice of the People". Vox Pops are common in news when average people are asked on camera or they talk about what is trending on twitter. In this way I can have a sort of "character", that of the Atlantean people.))

[Chlorna]

The Second Letter of Solangus Balvaksin

"Dear Iaome my beloved sister, May Ara bless you with many crops and keep the wolves from the sheep

I have just finished reading your letter. My wife and sons are fine, Akorian is growing fast, he will soon start his tutoring with one of the many servants who now race through the halls of this house. Ursion is still just a babe, but I can tell great things will come from him already. My wife is with child again, we both hope it will be a girl. Akorian is enough to handle as it stands! My work in the Senate has been rather discomforting, especially today. The party I am a member of, the Mercators, has lost the election to that beast Graetius and his minions. Everyone fears him, and for good reason too. He is a monster. But even he can't touch another senator, there are rules after all. After I saw that behavior earlier today, I was enraged that people still defended him. I stormed out of the senate, and drank till I calmed down. (Thankfully my servant bought me some Eurpan wine, it helped me remember the fun times on the merchant fleet and I quickly relaxed) I am still sober enough to write, but not for much longer. So with that I end this letter.


Your brother,
Solangus. "

[LeeroyJenkins]

((Excellent Post Mr. Capitalist, I just have one question does popular sentiment towards the current administration impact any parts of the game.))

[Mr. Capiatlist]

((Excellent Post Mr. Capitalist, I just have one question does popular sentiment towards the current administration impact any parts of the game.))

((Mostly in the form of missions.))

[LeeroyJenkins]

((Mostly in the form of missions.))

((I haven't played Europa Universalis III what are missions?))

[Mr. Capiatlist]

((I haven't played Europa Universalis III what are missions?))

((If you complete them you get a little boon, like a free core or prestige. Actually, one might be causing a CTD right now. I got to 1357... and can't get any farther. Not sure why. Everyone just keep RPing while I figure it out.))

[robb1993]

(( I don't my character's backstory really justifies her being an admiral. So if you do make her one make her a kind of crappy one. Maybe a maneuver point and then either a second maneuver point or a fire point. Probably the fire point. Definitely no shock.
Also, this might be too complicated, but do military commanders in the field still have a voice/vote in the senate? It would be pretty amusing to take after the roman example and start shipping generals off the the provinces so that they can't oppose important motions in the senate ))

Senator Krupt stands. She has spoken very little since the debate over the gods, and several senators around her start to see her preparing to speak

The issue of the Urollans is indeed the most pressing facing our Congress right now. The debate surrounding this issue would be amusing if it did not hold so much at stake. The most troubling aspect is the assumption of victory. While I am confident in our capabilities I fear we underestimate the fighting power of the Urollans. I believe Senator Othollo will agree that on an equal footing they can be fierce opponents.

The second issue is that of slavery. As you may know, small-scale enslavement of captives is a common practice on both sides of the western border. It is an accepted part of the status quo. Do the anti-slavery advocates intend to end that practice? Or do you merely object to large-scale campaigns designed primarily to capture slaves?

Finally, there is the issue of peace. Ultimately we must make peace on some terms. It is to this issue that I now turn. There are abundant calls for tribute or conquest but yet no official policy. Here is my proposal for the goals of this war:
The goal of this campaign should be to push back the border and establish forts along the frontier. This will create a buffer zone, protecting the lives and economic prosperity of those who live along the border such as the families of Senator Othollo and myself. It will also open up the border to new opportunities for our merchants as the border citizens' wealth increases. Over the long term, we can use the land on the extended border as pensions for veterans, making the army a true source of opportunity. This will also secure the land for our nation and turn it into a long-term economic boon.

This brings me to the second part of my proposal. The border should be manned by a professional army. There are numerous ex-soldiers in this Congress, most of whom are only here because of the opportunity provided by their military service. Because of this, the importance of the army relative to the navy is growing. We will need somewhere for new soldiers to gain experience and new resources with which to pay them, and this frontier zone will provide these. Finally, the professional army will act as a deterrent against our southern rivals.

In short, this is a plan that I believe will benefit everyone - peasants and aristocrats, soldiers and merchants, frontier and city dwellers - without overextending ourselves or risking disaster.

This is the most sensible thing I've seen proposed all day.


And as to the suggestion from several other "esteemed" congressmen that the military commanders should not vote- I say this- OUTRAGEOUS!
The men who keep this democracy safe should be allowed to dictate how it is run the same as any other man or woman.


-Senator Othollo

[quicksabre]

This is the most sensible thing I've seen proposed all day.

I am glad you agree, Senator. Let us continue to fight for this resolution to the war, since our esteemed colleagues seem too distracted trying to limit each other's powers to discuss it.

(( are there votes for big policy issues such as wars, peace, etc, or is that the duty of you and/or the imperator? ))

[robb1993]

I am glad you agree, Senator. Let us continue to fight for this resolution to the war, since our esteemed colleagues seem too distracted trying to limit each other's powers to discuss it.

(( are there votes for big policy issues such as wars, peace, etc, or is that the duty of you and/or the imperator? ))

Agreed.

[cavebear3000]

Graetius, having fully recovered from the previous night, stands and walks down the isle, towards the speaker’s podium. The Senate immediately falls silent… will they be subjected to another “celebration” by their own Imperator? The mad fire that had burned in Graetius’s eyes is now replaced by a much calmer countenance. After tapping the podium once for complete silence, Graetius begins answering the many questions and statements that have been made in his brief absence…

And what of the Western Provinces!...
How does the Imperator intend to end this war? What is our end goal?

Rest assured Senator, the Urollans that murdered your kin, along with those thousands of other Azlanti citizens, shall be hunted down like wild curs and slaughtered. Any who stand in the way of our mighty army shall be put to death, be them men, women, or children. After we have occupied Ollan lands routed the Ollan “army”, which is composed of around 5,000 poorly trained cattle thieves, I, accompanied by General Aureolis, will march further west to subdue another coalition of warlike Urollan nomads. This second Urollan faction is composed of only 4,000 men and will easily be routed. To ensure that order is finally brought to the West, we, the people of Aztlanxo, will govern these newly occupied lands. Any Urollans willing to accept their new positions as full citizens of Aztlanxo will enjoy the same rights as the most renowned Azlanti patriarch. This benevolent treatment, coupled with colonization efforts in the west, will bring tame the Urollans and acculturate them into our society.

Atlantis must be unified!

I am glad to hear this from you General Aureolis. Atlantis will indeed be unified, but this task shall not be accomplished exclusively with the sword. True, I could impose harsh penalties on the Urollans. I could clap every strong Urollan man in irons and cart him off to our capital city. I shall do none of these things however, for I am a staunch Populare. I shall not have slavery or indentured servitude imposed on any Urollan and that is final. It seems as if I cannot leave this Curia for a day without you aristocrats bringing up the “many merits” of slavery. I will have no more talk of this abhorrent institution that has infected our culture!

The most troubling aspect is the assumption of victory. While I am confident in our capabilities I fear we underestimate the fighting power of the Urollans.

Bah! They are a fractured people who together can maintain a standing force of only 9,000 while our army shall soon boast 16,000 troops. Furthermore, the Azlanti Army is led by the most capable general of our time: your very own imperator.

The second issue is that of slavery. As you may know, small-scale enslavement of captives is a common practice on both sides of the western border. It is an accepted part of the status quo. Do the anti-slavery advocates intend to end that practice? Or do you merely object to large-scale campaigns designed primarily to capture slaves?

If I could change one aspect of Azlanti society while keeping the economy intact, I would immediately abolish all forms of slavery and indentured servitude. A society can never be considered egalitarian as long as it clings to the outdated institution of slavery. This practice not only creates an enormous hierarchical divide between the various echelons of society, as it also discourages the growth of a free working class.

Graetius looks down at his notes. It seems as if every quandary has been answered… except for Pontia Krupts peace proposal. Graetius scans this proposal… lifts his head, stares directly at Senator Krupt, and declares,

In case you were wondering, full annexation will be demanded from the Urollans. Also a professional standing army will (muttering) obviously (/muttering) maintain our Southern border. Thank you for your thoughts.

Graetius leaves the podium and returns to his seat, not deigning to react to the scowling aristocrats.

---Graetius---

((Honestly, we can easily take down the Urollans and grab their 3-4 provinces without overextension. I've had diplomats sent to the East seeking alliances and, rest assured, we will have some powerful allies by the next Vox Pops))