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Since your WE probably is still high and you have the vassalize Scotland mission... take them out now.
War exhaustion is over 10 at this point so fast wars are a good idea...
Ahhh... the beauty of warnings and guarantees. Yesterday's punching bag is tomorrow's meat shield.
It's a bit silly really.
These cascading alliances in 5.1 make things so messy, even for the AI...
I'd go for outright annexation of Portugal, don't let them the chance to colonise even one or two provinces in Africa.
That's my thinking, if they aren't there they can't explore.
I like your way of thinking. A nice cup of tea and a good ponder can solve any problem.
Probably not everything but it's a good starting point
I think that annexation is the best option, will save you from trouble in the future...
And of course, even on troubled times never forget your tea!
Quite, to paraphrase Stalin, no country no problem.
This is great stuff
I wondered what all the fuss about your AARS was about; now I know
Thanks, my AARs tend to be a pretty unrelenting charge straight at a rather difficult in game objective. Before my Iroquois AAR the forum was ful of threads about the native Americans being unplayable - fixed that. No one though staying Tribal throughout a game was a good idea either, fixed that as well with the GH AAR. There's usually a lot of warfare and conquest with the occasional cunning plan.
Or - wait 5 years , and vassalize them!
Without any army/navy , they won't be too bothersome
They have a COT and the problem isn't whether or not they can fight but what they explore.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you sit on those Portuguese provinces for ~7 years, they'll fall in value enough for you to turn them into a vassal now, and diplo-annex later for a total of 7BB!
edit: sorry, assume that's what sprites above was saying... duh.
Good point and one I completely missed :blush:
But if you vassalize them they will probably start exploring very soon and if they even find one coastal province of SA you will regret it later.
Also it's great to finally be able to follow your AAR's from the beginning, the Iroquis AAR was the reason I started playing EU3.
Absolutrely, the danger is exploration. Glad to see you liked the Iroquois game but given the number of icons there I'm sure you'd have got around to EU3 sooner or later.
For sure it would be better in short term to kill them off, however soon enough it will be BB and not WE that will become your limitation. Let's face it - a player like you is never going to let the BB drop to 0 for long enough for it to be hipothecaly -2, so if you annex Portugal now, you might rue this day a few centuries later when the BB limit will not allow you to annex Ming...
Another question is: can Portugal gain a colony in the 5 years or during vassalship? If it takes at least 2 colonies, annexation would be more prudent (I don't know DW mechanics, I'm assuming that colonies take 1 BB to diploannex).
Good points, for every other country that reasoning is valid but Portugal is a special case, they will explore and they will colonise. It's about as scripted as EU3 gets.
If Portugal's tech is in good shape, they'll grab QFTNW in ten years. Leaving them alive sounds risky for just a 2 BB difference...
Nice progress in the French region as well as North Africa.
Portugal doesn't need QftNW to start exploring as they have missions for the Atlantic islands but yes NI 2 is due soon and they'll take QftNW.
I agree with Malurous, once you have Portugal and Castille out of the colonization race everything gets more managable.
How are you planning to work your way in the HRE? And what about Scandinavia, are the Danish PUs still present?
On the african front I presume you're pushing hard eastward, in order to get al least to Bengal by 1650.
Kiling Portugal and Castile has been one of the early objectives otherwise they are very difficult to eliminate. HRE is probably going to be late game CBs after I reach the Rhine although opportunties will be taken. Bengal by 1650 lacks ambition
Well , if they are annexed about 10 years after being vassalized?
Even If they discover (not much) it isn't a big problem , as 50 years later most nations won't have the range to colonize it anyways , so Prawnstar can colonise it himself
The Italians will have the range to reach Africa and Brazil if 'Spread of Discoveries' suddenly pops up
Annexing now removes a colonial opponent and further tightens your grip on Iberia. France has been neutered as a colonial threat and once Castille is dealt a death blow then you're only fighting the second string colonisers like Scandinavia or Italian minors. The badboy you use now will be spent to save having to spend much more seizing colonies or picking up 2% 2-4bb worth provinces in peace deals later on.
That's the calcuation - Burgundy and Aragon aren't minor so I need to prevent them colonising as well.
Another quandary. Annex now. Porugal is a major early colonizer. Removing them now is a gift.
Hello Chief, good to see you here , hope you're well. That's a very concise analysis.
I'm guessing if you vassalize Portugal and ally them, thus keeping them mostly at war for the ten years til you can diploannex, they will get virtually nothing done in terms of colonization or even exploration.
Also, I am reasonably sure diplovassalizing is bb-free.
Diplovasselising is not on the agenda even though it's BB cheap - Portugal hates me and the timeframe is too long - Portugal will explore and I expect one decent explorer would be enough to uncover the Brazilian coast or find the West Indies.
It is, i love doing it when i'm in no position to annex or vassalize a country by war, very useful...and no need to spam SoIs, just need low infamy
Low infamy as in under 4 in my experience - that's not a good place for me in this game - I'll be at war with BB that low.
I love Prawnstar's AARs because when he plays, you always think to yourself, "Man, all these wars are spiraling out of control." But they're actually spiraling perfectly into his control.
It doesn't always feel like that - some people ragequit I rage 'Pause and have a cup of tea'.
i would annex, but then again im a greedy thug and france dosn't last even this long when i play as ENG, i just forget about iberia to my shame
If I was just going after France it would be gone by now but it's only one of several simultaneous early game (1399 - 1500) goals.
Some thoughts on Portugal.
Of all the countries out there Portugal are the biggest danger as explorers. Even before QftNW Portugal gets missions to discover islands in the Atlantic such as Madeira, islands they'll colonise islands that will cost BB to take from them.
They take QftNW as their second NI and have a great position to discover West Africa, Brazil and the Caribbean very quickly. Even if taken out after they've explored 'Spread of Discoveries' will open up opportunities for other Latin countries to colonise. There's another long term less obvious agenda as well. I'm in no hurry to start colonising the world for a couple of reasons. Firstly the economy can't take the strain and secondly I don't want to annex the pagans until after 1650. All BB spent before 1650 could be spent on the very cost effective 25% Holy War CB, pagans are even cheaper at 20% but that CB isn' time restricted so best used in the period after 1650 when most CBs cost 50%.
