BTW, what the heck does this question have to do with naval warfare?
ah... I thought I had clicked on the quick questions thread... moving it. But thanks for the answer.
Cheers
BTW, what the heck does this question have to do with naval warfare?
Average speed is highly useful in carrier combat vs a surface fleet, because if the surface fleet is faster on average than the carrier fleet it has a good chance of starting with the carriers within firing distance when the battle begins. In combat between two surface groups average speed isn't as important, because both sides will want to charge toward each other anyway.
I limit my fleets to 6 ships and have all my admirals at 1 STAR. Then I let them get yoked out with their skills to get maxed, then I can promote them. But I see no reason to ever do 2 CVs + 2 DD + 3 CL. Why put an extra ship into the fleet and cost yourself all that free XP gained from the admiral being lower rank?
No.4 Bits and Pieces, or Von Bromgrev (In honour of the Fleet he used in his Teutonic dreams AAR.)
This had to be tweaked since Von Bromgrev played with the HPP rules making the CA screens (as they bloody well should be!!!)
2BB 2 CVL 2CL 1DD Hull Penalty 11%
No.4 Fleet "Von Bromgrev"
I was exited at trying this. I had to modify it to make it work. It didn't...
The two CAG's were depleated quickly. The org loss was incredible. I won the battles, but the CAG's were spent.
I reloaded and made No.6 "the Improved Von Bromgrev"
1 CV 4BB 7 CL Hull Penalty 26%
It did a lot better. The CAG, still only two squadron strong, took half as much damage. More BB's must take credit, but I was wondering if the CAG's share damage if they are one group. Never mind.
I tried the fleet with 7 DD's rather than CL's, and little difference did I find.
You mean kind of how the 8 CVs + 8 CVL + 18 CVE "just win" in the very historical battle of Leyte Gulf?I would hazard a guess and say that 4CV 4 CL is better than 3CV 4CL. However you need as many CAG's as you can get. With a stacking penalty of 2,5% whilst on CAG duty, meaning you can have 10 CV's as the optimum Carrier fleet. I find this so abhorrently ahistorical (not to mention expensive) that I did not bother testing it out. It just wins...
You mean kind of how the 8 CVs + 8 CVL + 18 CVE "just win" in the very historical battle of Leyte Gulf?
All in all about 1500 airplanes were used = 30 CAGs.
Even if not in the same fleet, they were certainly attacking the same targets (which is the only thing thats interresting for HoI3 stacking purposes). Air/Naval battles with 500-1000 airplanes (10-20 CAGs) did happen historically. Another historical example would be Battle of the Philippine Sea (1000 US airplanes versus 500+ Japanese ).
Near the end of the war (at Okinawa) over 400 US Carrier Airplanes were launched to just sink a single japanese ship (Yamato).
Having 20 CAGs strike the same target is in no way "abhorrently ahistorical", It is what won the war for USA...
And yes it is expensive (this is why they won and not Japan that couldn't afford it).
Actually there are quite a few tricks to make this setup alot more lethal, that are just not available to other fleets.No.1 the Big bad Carrier fleet, or the Alex(_brunius) after the man who inspired me.
6CV 7CL. Hull penalty of 35%
...
First off was No.1 Fleet Alex_brunius
As expected the Fleet won the engagements. The fleet rarely sunk opponents, but their org was virtually nil. Submarines are sunk promptly, not one survived the CV Fleet. Since the CV fleet has 12 CAG's they did not suffer much org loss.
Actually there are quite a few tricks to make this setup alot more lethal, that are just not available to other fleets.
If you want to make it really optimized and start to sink enemies in short order you need to do the following:
* Train your CAGs, by using them in ground attack roles you can easily have the CAGs up to 50-100% experience and their leaders with 2-4 levels higher. This will increase your damage with 60-120% in combat.
* Make sure to tech rush the doctrine "navalstrike tactics" as it can increase your damage by 5% per level, easily 20% extra if you research it much ahead of time and 30-40% extra compared to ignoring it.
* Make sure to tech rush the "air launched torpedo" and "light bomb" techs. Having them both at level 1943 instead of no level will increase your CAG damage by 75%
When you combine these the total potential from fully trained/researched CAGs is increased by more then a whooping +300%! (1.9*1.2*1.75)
Also be mindful of the weather and time of day. Bad weather and night-time are easy to miss and will make your CAGs look alot less lethal then they potentially can be!
Good luck with your Carrier warfare
That is a nice analysis Stabber, but i feel it has a flaw - your opponents were Italian tin cans and lets be honest, those are not the first rate ships/doctrines. You can beat them with modern CA/CL fleet just as easily. You can't really evaluate any setup without testing it against modern RN/USN carrier/battleship fleets.
The sad fact is that it is damned near impossible to try it out anywhere else.
At this point I should have some sort of conclusion.... I don't.
Naval strategy is dependent on what country you play. Gun fleets can work if you have Spitfires gunning down enemy CAG's and a few Naval bombers to hammer the enemy fleet.
Building CV fleets is about as mentally challenging as opting for a BMW over an old Vauxhall. It is just obvious.
The nearest I come to 'facts' is that A: CA's are useless as capital ships, and B: you should always have a 11+ strong fleet to ward off enemy aircrafts.
NB: I am deeply grateful for TheBromgrev, Capt.Easy, Zid and Alex Brunius, Secret Master, Valentian, Eqqman and others work on this site.