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Swezeru

Swezeru

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Oct 6, 2008
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There was a law in Ck1 where when you died, you split up your titles amongst your heirs and now I cant remember the name for that law...

But anyways now I´m wondering is this law going to be in Ck2 and will it divide the titles properly and not so random like it did in Ck1?
(like if you are king of Denmark, Sweden and Norway and have three heirs, they will get one kingdom each and only provinces from within their own respective kingdom)

Sorry if the question is a bit unclear, I am not really good at phrasing myself..
And if this question already has been asked then I'm sorry and I would like to know the link to it so I can see the answer :D
 
Swezeru said:
There was a law in Ck1 where when you died, you split up your titles amongst your heirs and now I cant remember the name for that law...

But anyways now I´m wondering is this law going to be in Ck2 and will it divide the titles properly and not so random like it did in Ck1?
(like if you are king of Denmark, Sweden and Norway and have three heirs, they will get one kingdom each and only provinces from within their own respective kingdom)

Sorry if the question is a bit unclear, I am not really good at phrasing myself..
And if this question already has been asked then I'm sorry and I would like to know the link to it so I can see the answer :D
Click to expand...

The law was called Gavelkind, and yes, it's in CKII. Look here: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?509204-Crusader-Kings-II-Dev-Diary-3-Laws
 
The law is called Gavelkind, and it's actually the default succession law in CKII. It does a better job of dividing the titles too. :)
 
Swezeru said:
Oh okay of course they mentioned it in a DD, why didn't I think of that...
But how does it actually work when the engine "splits up" the kingdom?
Click to expand...

The heirs each go around with a bucket of chalk and draw borders around the parts of the kingdom they want
 
How hard is it to change succession laws? I imagine most players will want to change to some kind of primogeniture ASAP so that they get to continue playing with all their lands after succession.
 
Swezeru said:
Oh okay of course they mentioned it in a DD, why didn't I think of that...
But how does it actually work when the engine "splits up" the kingdom?
Click to expand...
And will it be possible to choose which son you want to play as? (or will it be like in CK1 that you can save and then reload as another fraction)
 
Spectacle said:
How hard is it to change succession laws? I imagine most players will want to change to some kind of primogeniture ASAP so that they get to continue playing with all their lands after succession.
Click to expand...
According to the new gameplay video the conditions are these:
- this ruler has not previously changed succession law
- this ruler has ruled for at least 10 years
- this ruler is at peace
- all vassals of this ruler are at peace
- no vassal has a negative opinion of this ruler

I imagine that mostly the last condition can be very harsh, at least for larger realms.

BraidsMAmma said:
And will it be possible to choose which son you want to play as? (or will it be like in CK1 that you can save and then reload as another fraction)
Click to expand...
In the video I mentioned above it looks like you play the oldest child (titles for the other children are hinted as lost), but I may be wrong.
 
The primary title goes to the oldest child, the heir. If the father holds secondary titles, the other children get those, but it seems they will be vassals of the primary title. So all is not lost.

In the new video the duke of Potolsk also has 5 count titles. Upon succession each son gets 1 county. The oldest also gets the dukedom.

- no vassal has a negative opinion of this ruler

I imagine that mostly the last condition can be very harsh, at least for larger realms.
Click to expand...

Incentive to streamline your list of vassals? As king, try to have only vassals of ducal rank?
 
Last edited:
gav1230 said:
Will personal unions be properly represented in game? Separate kingdoms with separate laws but a common ruler ?
Click to expand...

Yes. Explained in dev diary 3:


Demesne laws cover things like succession, tax levels and how the council operates. Any playable character can fiddle around with his own demesne laws. Kingdom laws cover the freedoms, rights and obligations of burghers, nobles, clergy and peasants. Only the holder of a Kingdom title is allowed to change these laws, and they will affect the whole geographical kingdom, regardless of whether a province is actually under its de facto control. (Like in Crusader Kings, de jure duchies and kingdoms are static, geographical entities that never change.)

Therefore, a player who is, for example, king of Norway and Denmark must change de jure laws separately per kingdom. To make things even more interesting, succession at the kingdom level (and only at the kingdom level) is also handled per kingdom, so Norway might be an elective monarchy while Denmark has primogeniture. Thus, the Norwegian dukes might elect another successor to the throne of Norway than the oldest son of the current king, which would split the kingdoms apart...
Click to expand...
 
So there is no way of merging two countries like you did in Ck1, the closest thing would be to make (to take that example) both the titles Norway and Denmark hereditary instead?
 
If you can change the law in Norway to primogeniture, the same dude inherits both. It would be one kingdom de jure. Albeit the Norwegian vassals could revolt and change the law again - and they likely won't vote your guy into office.
 
Bit of a bump, my apologies, but this seemed the best thread to ask this question in.

Does anyone know how marriages, education, etc will work outside the "main family" in CK2? In Sengoku it seems as though you are limited to controlling the destinies of only the children of your current ruler. You don't seem to be able to do this for siblings and their children - though I could be (and hope I am) horribly wrong about that.

Basically, I'm hoping there are no limits of the sort of arrangements you can make in CK2, even for the sake of relieving game speed by limiting the number of characters. One of the many things I loved about CK1 was keeping each branch of the family going for as long as possible. Cadet branches die out, of course, but in CK2 I hope it's through "natural" courses and not due to limits set by the game itself.

Thoughts?
 
Subcomandante said:
Yes. Explained in dev diary 3:
Click to expand...

Although I still find It unfortunately that succession laws can only be changed at the kingdom level; IMHO ideally it should have been possible per title, which would have led to interesting (and IMO even more realistic) divisions of inheritances. OTOH I understand that keeping track etc. in the end would have been too much work.

Or do they keep track how certain titles became possessions of a dynasty, since there could and IMHO should be claimants for a part of the inheritance. For instance a duke or count even, who inherited land and titles from both his parents, would (often) have had a different successor in his paternal (heir of his father's house) and maternal lands (heir of his mother's house).
 
Doomdark said:
The law is called Gavelkind, and it's actually the default succession law in CKII. It does a better job of dividing the titles too. :)
Click to expand...

PreXident said:
According to the new gameplay video the conditions are these:
- this ruler has not previously changed succession law
- this ruler has ruled for at least 10 years
- this ruler is at peace
- all vassals of this ruler are at peace
- no vassal has a negative opinion of this ruler
Click to expand...

So we can't immediately change the law or even pick the succession law we want at the start of the game? We have to not only wait 10 years, but meet other criteria? That seems silly--I'd prefer it to default to primogeniture like in CK1, I prefer NOT having my kingdom split up when I play.
 
morhange said:
So we can't immediately change the law or even pick the succession law we want at the start of the game? We have to not only wait 10 years, but meet other criteria? That seems silly--I'd prefer it to default to primogeniture like in CK1, I prefer NOT having my kingdom split up when I play.
Click to expand...

I don't like having my kingdom split up either, but I guess the thinking is that it's not all that historically accurate for one son to get everything and the rest nothing, looking at the whole of Europe in 1066. That seems to me to be the most likely line of reasoning.
 
morhange said:
So we can't immediately change the law or even pick the succession law we want at the start of the game? We have to not only wait 10 years, but meet other criteria? That seems silly--I'd prefer it to default to primogeniture like in CK1, I prefer NOT having my kingdom split up when I play.
Click to expand...

I think you're misinterpreting him when he says the default is Gavelkind. He doesn't mean every title in the game starts with Gavelkind. That would be stupid and lame. In 1066 all the titles have their historic laws, or as close as Paradox could get.

He means that all new titles created in-game will use Gavelkind, just like in CK1 they were all Semi-Salic Primo with Ecclesiastical Balance and Traditional Custom.

So this mostly applies to all the new AI Counts and Dukes you'll create.

Nick
 
Nick B II said:
I think you're misinterpreting him when he says the default is Gavelkind. He doesn't mean every title in the game starts with Gavelkind. That would be stupid and lame. In 1066 all the titles have their historic laws, or as close as Paradox could get.

He means that all new titles created in-game will use Gavelkind, just like in CK1 they were all Semi-Salic Primo with Ecclesiastical Balance and Traditional Custom.

So this mostly applies to all the new AI Counts and Dukes you'll create.

Nick
Click to expand...

It's default, so I assume that it remains possible to change this. Since IMHO wouldn't it be better if newly created titles have the same default as the realm in which they are created; any newly created graf, comte, earl, count etc. will want the same right as his peers. Furthermore it should gradually evolve, maybe it could be a realm decision (either the monarch changes it or the nobles petition him). However each AI noble or royal should be able to change this according to his own ambitions and circumstances.
 
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