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By force?
Voluntarily after a brief discussion with 2 fronts and some NKVD personel.
By force?
Well Surt's 2nd post is very accurate actually ... yes they do end up joining the Axis just as the first cavalry horse of the Red Army reaches the Atlantic, and then are invited to change their minds by an attack from the Balkans and the Caucasus. The problem is the German AI has more leadership than it knows how to use so its influencing all over the place, and of course the Turkish AI doesn't think now is not a good time to annoy Uncle Joe. But I do wonder why Finland never declared at a time when it could have been catastrophic.
Yes IC is mostly on the fleet and on upgrades (which I'm doing a lot) and on infra (though that is winding down as I improve links from Moscow to Poland and in critical sectors in the Far East).
I believe he's busy building a navy to support operations against the Axis menace in South America.
The frontlines from May to July (or August) really tell it all - utter collapse of the German position in the Balkans. They lost a lot of troops, whether through encirclement, destruction or desertion and even with the shorter (mountainous) frontline, they must be a lot weaker off than before.
When you talk about the 'Slovakian' revolt, do you really mean the 'Slovenian' revolt?
ah, given I sometimes work as a proofreader you'd think I'd be able to proofread my own work.
The only thing that is still sort of in their favour in the Balkans is the important front is now so short and mountainous but their losses over the last 3 months have been near total. From April-October 1944 they lost over 750,000 dead and prisoners in that sector alone - mostly in the debacle after I broke through at Budapest and shifted the nature of the campaign with the Greek invasion.
Oohhh... That just looks too easy...
Its now an exercise in problem solving, but still (to the end of July) tough fighting, then the Werhmacht just falls apart
I think my threat is monumentally high and gets worse for some reason ... people around the Soviet Union just get too paranoid for their own good.
The Marines get used first in southern Italy to speed the collapse and then a lot in N Africa first to finish off the job the UK is making such a mess of and then to take out the Vichy cities in N Africa, so its very low intensity combat but the flexibility is really very helpful.
"The Meadows - Mine", Bagration, June 1944
Although Bagration was planned for 7 June, the result of the German offensive on 3 June was that most of 1 Bielorussian Front was already in action, either fending off the axis onslaught or preparing the Soviet response.
In effect, only 2 Bielorussian Front landed a co-ordinated blow as it hit the German lines around Breslau. The opening fighting was intense, as the Soviet offensive crashed into well prepared defense lines and it quickly became clear the Germans had allocated all their reserves to the front lines.
(Panther from 21 Panzer destroyed near Gostyn)
The result was a sequence of bruising encounters at Rawicz and Gostyn and it wasn't till 12 June that the German front line had been overrun.
By the 13th the German front had splintered. To the north 28 Army was moving into the outskirts of Poznan as 10 Army entered the streets of Breslau. The first two major objectives were under attack. With 2 Tank Army driving towards the Oder to the north and 3 Army threatening the city from the south, the Germans abandoned Breslau after limited fighting on the 14th. The first of their nuclear facilities was safely in Soviet hands and NKVD and SMERSH formations moved in almost directly behind the leading rifle squads to ensure they were captured intact.
Poznan and the linked fighting at Leszno proved to be much harder. 28 Army attacked off the march, in part to relieve the pressure on 5 Army, in part to secure the flank of 8 Army pushing for the Oder but ran into almost the last organised German armoured reserve consisting of 2 Panzer (23 and 5 SS) and 1 Heavy armoured division (10).
(Tiger destroyed near Poznan)
Lacking any IS-2s, the result was Bagramian's riflemen were sucked into vicious street fighting where it was clear the Germans had learnt from the Baltic battles. Especially the Tigers were used almost exlcusively on defense, giving each street block a strong point.
(SU-100s in Poznan at the end of the battle)
Equally the Germans engaged in a much more active defense and looked to cut Soviet resupply and retreat routes.
(Soviet sappers in operation near Poznan)
The result was a near disaster and the city did not fall to 22 June by which time it had all but been surrounded. Its liberation cost 28 Army over 6000 dead, but led to two benefits. Another vital part of the German armoured reserves had been badly degraded and the lessons were quickly learnt. Chuikov's 8 Army was well prepared for what to expect when they entered Berlin.
In the meantime 2 Bielorussian's offensive developed. 3 Army held onto its bridgehead over the upper Oder at Landeshut inflicting heavy losses on the Germans
and 10 Army with elements of 2 Tank forced the river at Hirschberg. 3 Army then extended its bridgeheads and started to reduce the fortresses protecting the approaches to Prag. By 30 June Hradek Krakove, Prostejov and Petersdorf were in Soviet hands.
Of greater importance, 1 Tank had taken Cottbus by 29 June
(Soviet tanks in Cottbus, with the crossing of the Oder there was a growing sense that the war was reaching its end)
and defeated a German counterattack at Frankfurt an der Oder and 8 Army had elements already over the Oder preparing for the attack on Berlin.
In the meantime, by 15 June, 13 and 5 Armies had recovered from the German offensive and counterattacked across the front. The Germans had expended their strength in their initial blow and at Poznan. All of a sudden the salients they had driven into the Soviet lines became encirclement battles as their front fell apart. Small pockets formed and were eliminated at Chojnice and Koslin and by the end of June, 13 Army was trying to force the Upper Oder at Stettin while 5 Army eliminated the last axis pockets to their rear. With 28 Army also in action along the Oder, the next step was the battle for Berlin itself.
(28 Corps was to have the honour of leading the assault on Berlin but first had to overcome the German defensive lines on the Seelowe heights)
(bridge in 13 Army sector)
However, including the German offensive, the June battles had been murderous for both sides, 55,995 Soviet and 81,204 Axis (mostly German) soldiers lost their lives and a further 16,895 Axis troops had surrendered in a sequence of small encirclement battles. The last reserves available to the Wehrmacht were being drained away even as Soviet forces pushed over the Oder and into Czechoslavakia.
(13 and 28 Armies move to the upper reaches of the Oder while 8 and 1 Tank Armies create the Cottbus bridgehead)
(although 3 and 10 Armies are still caught up on the last German redoubts, once they break through there are no German reserves left in the Prag region)
Although Bagration was planned for 7 June, the result of the German offensive on 3 June was that most of 1 Bielorussian Front was already in action, either fending off the axis onslaught or preparing the Soviet response.
In effect, only 2 Bielorussian Front landed a co-ordinated blow as it hit the German lines around Breslau. The opening fighting was intense, as the Soviet offensive crashed into well prepared defense lines and it quickly became clear the Germans had allocated all their reserves to the front lines.
(Panther from 21 Panzer destroyed near Gostyn)
The result was a sequence of bruising encounters at Rawicz and Gostyn and it wasn't till 12 June that the German front line had been overrun.
By the 13th the German front had splintered. To the north 28 Army was moving into the outskirts of Poznan as 10 Army entered the streets of Breslau. The first two major objectives were under attack. With 2 Tank Army driving towards the Oder to the north and 3 Army threatening the city from the south, the Germans abandoned Breslau after limited fighting on the 14th. The first of their nuclear facilities was safely in Soviet hands and NKVD and SMERSH formations moved in almost directly behind the leading rifle squads to ensure they were captured intact.
Poznan and the linked fighting at Leszno proved to be much harder. 28 Army attacked off the march, in part to relieve the pressure on 5 Army, in part to secure the flank of 8 Army pushing for the Oder but ran into almost the last organised German armoured reserve consisting of 2 Panzer (23 and 5 SS) and 1 Heavy armoured division (10).
(Tiger destroyed near Poznan)
Lacking any IS-2s, the result was Bagramian's riflemen were sucked into vicious street fighting where it was clear the Germans had learnt from the Baltic battles. Especially the Tigers were used almost exlcusively on defense, giving each street block a strong point.
(SU-100s in Poznan at the end of the battle)
Equally the Germans engaged in a much more active defense and looked to cut Soviet resupply and retreat routes.
(Soviet sappers in operation near Poznan)
The result was a near disaster and the city did not fall to 22 June by which time it had all but been surrounded. Its liberation cost 28 Army over 6000 dead, but led to two benefits. Another vital part of the German armoured reserves had been badly degraded and the lessons were quickly learnt. Chuikov's 8 Army was well prepared for what to expect when they entered Berlin.
In the meantime 2 Bielorussian's offensive developed. 3 Army held onto its bridgehead over the upper Oder at Landeshut inflicting heavy losses on the Germans
and 10 Army with elements of 2 Tank forced the river at Hirschberg. 3 Army then extended its bridgeheads and started to reduce the fortresses protecting the approaches to Prag. By 30 June Hradek Krakove, Prostejov and Petersdorf were in Soviet hands.
Of greater importance, 1 Tank had taken Cottbus by 29 June
(Soviet tanks in Cottbus, with the crossing of the Oder there was a growing sense that the war was reaching its end)
and defeated a German counterattack at Frankfurt an der Oder and 8 Army had elements already over the Oder preparing for the attack on Berlin.
In the meantime, by 15 June, 13 and 5 Armies had recovered from the German offensive and counterattacked across the front. The Germans had expended their strength in their initial blow and at Poznan. All of a sudden the salients they had driven into the Soviet lines became encirclement battles as their front fell apart. Small pockets formed and were eliminated at Chojnice and Koslin and by the end of June, 13 Army was trying to force the Upper Oder at Stettin while 5 Army eliminated the last axis pockets to their rear. With 28 Army also in action along the Oder, the next step was the battle for Berlin itself.
(28 Corps was to have the honour of leading the assault on Berlin but first had to overcome the German defensive lines on the Seelowe heights)
(bridge in 13 Army sector)
However, including the German offensive, the June battles had been murderous for both sides, 55,995 Soviet and 81,204 Axis (mostly German) soldiers lost their lives and a further 16,895 Axis troops had surrendered in a sequence of small encirclement battles. The last reserves available to the Wehrmacht were being drained away even as Soviet forces pushed over the Oder and into Czechoslavakia.
(13 and 28 Armies move to the upper reaches of the Oder while 8 and 1 Tank Armies create the Cottbus bridgehead)
(although 3 and 10 Armies are still caught up on the last German redoubts, once they break through there are no German reserves left in the Prag region)
I wish the 28th Guards Corps Luck in taking the Lair of the Facist beast that dared to defile the Motherland.
ZA ROUNDIA!
ZA ROUNDIA!
"From Stettin in the Baltic to Trieste in the Adriatic an "iron curtain" has descended across the continent. Behind that line lie all the capitals of the ancient states of Central and Eastern Europe. Warsaw, Berlin, Prague, Vienna, Budapest, Belgrade, Bucharest and Sofia; all these famous cities and the populations around them lie in what I must call the Soviet sphere, and all are subject, in one form or another, not only to Soviet influence but to a very high and in some cases increasing measure of control from Moscow."
From: Winston Church, Prime Minister de jure, British Government in India
To: Field Marshal Sir Alan Brooke
Message reads: Get a bloody move on!
Message ends
From: Winston Church, Prime Minister de jure, British Government in India
To: Field Marshal Sir Alan Brooke
Message reads: Get a bloody move on!
Message ends
Berlin is near! The Axis is pathetically weak, this is the best time for a final blow. I just hope that you were careful about your MP situation
What are the chances of organized German resistance crumbling after the fall of Berlin?
To paraphrase another famous message from one commander to another:
"Where is the US? The World Wonders."
"Where is the US? The World Wonders."
One of the things that most strikes me from the last update is visible in the last two screenshots: the large amount of Guards divisions you now deploy.
The German front before Berlin looks pretty weak - and is it accurate that there are no forces in Berlin proper, or does your intelligence not extend to that province? If it's right, then the Battle for Berlin will be rather anticlimactic.
The German front before Berlin looks pretty weak - and is it accurate that there are no forces in Berlin proper, or does your intelligence not extend to that province? If it's right, then the Battle for Berlin will be rather anticlimactic.
Nice work in crossing the Oder River.
I'm having my doubts that Germany will surrender after the fall of Berlin, though.
I'm having my doubts that Germany will surrender after the fall of Berlin, though.
Loki, I am currently up to page 18 (Mar 42). Really enjoying it, I just wonder whether I can catch up.
Well, I think there's a strong likelihood that there's going to be a surge in the number of Heroes of the Soviet Union any week now. And an airbrushed photo of someone raising a flag on the Reichstag.
I don't know. General Brooke, after the BEF was withdrawn from France, was CiC Home Command, directly in charge of the defence of the British Isles. Given how that worked out in this AAR, promotion to Field Marshal (and CIGS) might not have been in his future.
I don't know. General Brooke, after the BEF was withdrawn from France, was CiC Home Command, directly in charge of the defence of the British Isles. Given how that worked out in this AAR, promotion to Field Marshal (and CIGS) might not have been in his future.
It's a fair point, but I don't presume to know enough about the command structure to be able to pick a plausible replacement. I suppose it depends on how well he did in the defence given the limited forces available to him. The Royal Navy would probably carry much of the blame for having lost control of the Channel.
well luck, an awful lot of artlllery, attached brigades of heavy armour and a lot of sturmoviks do indeed do the job - the frustrating bit is that in SF VPs occupied elsewhere substitute for home VPs lost, so it doesn't even dent Germany's political will to resist - but then that is not unreasonable in that the only people around for them to surrender to are the Soviets
It is about this stage with a Soviet game that its a good idea to forget what the real implications of your victories would be ... actually according to my notes about now the British are in full retreat in Libya again, so they are not going to form a barrier between the Red Army and the rest of Europe
Berlin is near! The Axis is pathetically weak, this is the best time for a final blow. I just hope that you were careful about your MP situation
The MP situation is dire, I think by August its down around 20, but no longer so vital. The units in the Far East are at full strength so they can sustain 3-4 months of hard fighting with no reinforcements and the war against the European axis drops in intensity, so I can park the weaker formations to the rear and slowly rebuild them. In effect from Nov 43 to now, I've nursed it along and just managed to keep my head above water.
very neutral, mildly pro-axis, some evidence from my sub patrols of some intermittent naval actions against Japan ... it gets a bit more antsy when T-44s start deploying into purely defensive positions just south of the Rio Grande to protect the fraternal Socialist Republic of Mexico.
Well, they have no front south of Berlin-Prag at all, a relatively strong force in and around Stettin and a decent army group in Wien-Bratislava, but the VPs they hold in the UK and France keep them politically afloat till November 1944.
its a bit misleading - at that resolution, I lose sight of forces behind the front (at least if I just load up a save game and take an image), but there is a fair bit rattling around in the rear, Berlin in particular is infested with formations that have shattered in earlier battles and are not going to be much use when Comrade General Vasily Ivanovich turns up to demand the keys to Hitler's bunker.
No, the surrender progress stays at 100% till I start to take out VPs in France and the UK
Loki, I am currently up to page 18 (Mar 42). Really enjoying it, I just wonder whether I can catch up.
I'm really impressed at anyone tackling this from the start ... I never ever envisaged it still running a year later and 64 pages in. But the scope of each post will extend from now on as there is less and less meaningful to cover (at least in terms of detail) - from my rough plan, I think another 20 or so updates, plus some sort of postscript should do the business.
As above, I'm past the danger point now. The Far East formations are at near full strength so can sustain most of the war with Japan with no need for massive reinforcements and the next post is really the last major battle in the West. There are a few more as I close and destroy pockets but I don't need all my army to do that and the loss ratio starts to run at 5:1 in my favour - I've just, & its been close as I lost 3 divs to shatters in that German offensive in June alone, managed to nurse the situation past the critical point.
So ruined ... well it will be very soon
I think he could claim he did a good job. Looking back the Germans landed in Dec 40 and the campaign lasted to April 41, and I think the UK lost most of its army in France, so you could argue it was a poor hand well played. Its whoever the muppet is in charge of N Africa at the moment should resign. Soviet forces are in Trieste and they are still being beaten by the Italians.
"No Time to Die": Berlin - July 1944
By the 2 July, the advanced elements of 8 Army were at the outskirts of Berlin occupying the small village of Erkner and briefly halted as other formations cleared the Germans from their positions around Seelow and 1 Tank Army struck at Potsdam
with the goal of isolating Berlin to the south and ultimately surrounding the city. By 5 July, the last German resistance on the south and east of the city had ceased.
(part of the Soviet artillery force to the east of Berlin)
(the initial German defense was hampered by the confusion of command units and retreating divisions in the city)
However, Tolbukhin's 28 Corps had already commenced the assault at 21.00 on 4 July. Initially the German defense was chaotic, with the few combat formations intermingled with units falling back into the city in panic as the Red Army struck north and south.
(Tolbukhin's opening attacks)
The result was by 6 July the Soviets were already in possession of Tempelhof airfield and steadily clearing the city blocks at Bohnsdorf.
(by 8 July, the city was almost surrounded as 28 and 1 Tank Army overran the supporting defensive lines)
Here, slowly, the German resistance stabilised as they cannabilised the units in the city, sorted out their front lines and created emergency battalions designed to hold or counterattack key locations. Drawing inspiration from their defense of Poznan, some still believed they could fend off the Red Army.
(IS-2s in action in the Zessen sector)
By the 9th the battle had stalemated with the German HQ at Zossen the scene of bitter battles as buildings, floors, even rooms changed hands.
(Soviet armour moving up at Tempelhof)
Frustrated with the delay, Stavka unleashed a sequence of devastating air-raids, as at Bucherest and Beograd, Sturmoviks effectively hunted above the city, any vehicle in the open was attacked and particular attention was paid to disrupting the German rear areas.
(The Soviet air-raids on 9 July were utterly devasting as a hail of bombs reduced the few standing buildings)
Even as the German forces trying to hold off 8 Army fell back, the Soviets swept around the city. Elements of 28 Army commenced a supporting offensive from Pasewalk and 1 Tank, now firmly in control of all the exits south and west, turned its artillery on the surviving strong points.
(21 July - note that Soviet forces are as far west as Magdeburg as German resistance crumbles)
By 21 July, the city was long surrounded and the thunder of Soviet guns was heard well to the west. Stavka urgently ordered the city taken. Penned into a small area in the centre, the Germans were under constant shellfire, with IS-2s and ISU-122s firing over open sites at any remaining strongpoints and the VVS hitting targets at will.
(the final phase of the battle)
(the Red Flag over the Reichstag even as the last stage of the battle raged)
The Teltow canal was their last line of defense.
(IS-2s in the narrow streets near the Landwehr canal)
By 7am on the 23rd it was over as the last survivors surrendered when Soviet infanty forced their flank by clearing the Landwehr canal.
The battle for the city had cost 4,436 Soviet and 9,521 German lives, and a further 51,000 surrendered.
By the time Berlin fell, the Great Patriotic War had claimed the lives of 3,002,770 Soviet soldiers. Hitler's folly had cost his own army, and his allies 4,737,873. A further 1.1 million axis soldiers were to die or fall into Soviet hands before his regime finally collapsed.
(Soviet forces beneath the Brandenburg Gate)
By the 2 July, the advanced elements of 8 Army were at the outskirts of Berlin occupying the small village of Erkner and briefly halted as other formations cleared the Germans from their positions around Seelow and 1 Tank Army struck at Potsdam
with the goal of isolating Berlin to the south and ultimately surrounding the city. By 5 July, the last German resistance on the south and east of the city had ceased.
(part of the Soviet artillery force to the east of Berlin)
(the initial German defense was hampered by the confusion of command units and retreating divisions in the city)
However, Tolbukhin's 28 Corps had already commenced the assault at 21.00 on 4 July. Initially the German defense was chaotic, with the few combat formations intermingled with units falling back into the city in panic as the Red Army struck north and south.
(Tolbukhin's opening attacks)
The result was by 6 July the Soviets were already in possession of Tempelhof airfield and steadily clearing the city blocks at Bohnsdorf.
(by 8 July, the city was almost surrounded as 28 and 1 Tank Army overran the supporting defensive lines)
Here, slowly, the German resistance stabilised as they cannabilised the units in the city, sorted out their front lines and created emergency battalions designed to hold or counterattack key locations. Drawing inspiration from their defense of Poznan, some still believed they could fend off the Red Army.
(IS-2s in action in the Zessen sector)
By the 9th the battle had stalemated with the German HQ at Zossen the scene of bitter battles as buildings, floors, even rooms changed hands.
(Soviet armour moving up at Tempelhof)
Frustrated with the delay, Stavka unleashed a sequence of devastating air-raids, as at Bucherest and Beograd, Sturmoviks effectively hunted above the city, any vehicle in the open was attacked and particular attention was paid to disrupting the German rear areas.
(The Soviet air-raids on 9 July were utterly devasting as a hail of bombs reduced the few standing buildings)
Even as the German forces trying to hold off 8 Army fell back, the Soviets swept around the city. Elements of 28 Army commenced a supporting offensive from Pasewalk and 1 Tank, now firmly in control of all the exits south and west, turned its artillery on the surviving strong points.
(21 July - note that Soviet forces are as far west as Magdeburg as German resistance crumbles)
By 21 July, the city was long surrounded and the thunder of Soviet guns was heard well to the west. Stavka urgently ordered the city taken. Penned into a small area in the centre, the Germans were under constant shellfire, with IS-2s and ISU-122s firing over open sites at any remaining strongpoints and the VVS hitting targets at will.
(the final phase of the battle)
(the Red Flag over the Reichstag even as the last stage of the battle raged)
The Teltow canal was their last line of defense.
(IS-2s in the narrow streets near the Landwehr canal)
By 7am on the 23rd it was over as the last survivors surrendered when Soviet infanty forced their flank by clearing the Landwehr canal.
The battle for the city had cost 4,436 Soviet and 9,521 German lives, and a further 51,000 surrendered.
By the time Berlin fell, the Great Patriotic War had claimed the lives of 3,002,770 Soviet soldiers. Hitler's folly had cost his own army, and his allies 4,737,873. A further 1.1 million axis soldiers were to die or fall into Soviet hands before his regime finally collapsed.
(Soviet forces beneath the Brandenburg Gate)