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Democracy's Last Legs: A US - UK DAIM AAR

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Per that you claim that the colonists which settled in America are natives no matter if the indians were there first (And lived there for millenia). Even if the part of the coast they settled was not populated, they are still not the natives, no matter how long they live there.
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I would agree with Delex on the first part but not the second. To claim a group can never become native no matter how long they live in a place is rather odd. If someone is born in a place, has never known another, he or she can only be considered a native of that place no matter their skin color or ancestry. Otherwise there are a huge number of populations that can never be considered native. To use an example I'll bet none of y'all were thinking of, the Japanese. They were not the first group to dwell on those islands and they displaced the Ainu from a large part of their original space to create their state.

That said, even if the African blacks were only living there seasonally, they were still the original inhabitants, not the whites.
 
frigidmagi said:
I would agree with Delex on the first part but not the second. To claim a group can never become native no matter how long they live in a place is rather odd. If someone is born in a place, has never known another, he or she can only be considered a native of that place no matter their skin color or ancestry. Otherwise there are a huge number of populations that can never be considered native. To use an example I'll bet none of y'all were thinking of, the Japanese. They were not the first group to dwell on those islands and they displaced the Ainu from a large part of their original space to create their state.

That said, even if the African blacks were only living there seasonally, they were still the original inhabitants, not the whites.
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Yes that kinda describes it.
 
I would like to see an African puppet state under Germany, that way the Germans get the resources without messing too much with the AI, there is a similar state in the keiserrich mod that you could use.

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edit: on the subject above, there is no such thing as a native, the people that now live in s-Africa emigrated from central Africa, dose that make the immigrants today? same thing in Germany, Celts lived there 2000 years ago, now only Germany, Hungary, turkey, France,UK,Bulgaria, pretty much all of e- Europe is settled today by ethnicity's that weren't there a few thousand years ago, immigrants become natives over time, and by now s-africans are pretty native to s-africa
 
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It just seems to me, if the Afrikaners arent native to South Africa, they arent native to anywhere in the world. They forged from that place a unique language, have been there as of 1950 for 300+ years, and have contributed the vast majority of South Africa's meaningful cultural development.

Whither Native, then?

Edit: And yes, I do claim the colonists who settled in America are natives. They arent europeans, and havent been for some time- like the Afrikaners. But we are getting off topic.
 
Mattabesta I gotta ask, who is gonna administer this German puppet state?

Guys can we just agree if you're born in a nation and you've lived there pretty much all your life, you're a native no matter your ethnic group? I would think everyone in this forum knows enough history to realize nothing good as come from being overly obsessed on ethnic issues and blood lines.
 
frigidmagi said:
Guys can we just agree if you're born in a nation and you've lived there pretty much all your life, you're a native no matter your ethnic group? I would think everyone in this forum knows enough history to realize nothing good as come from being overly obsessed on ethnic issues and blood lines.
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I completely agree. Let's not go too far OT and drag LDs thread to a bad place. Let's keep the discussion focused on the partition of Africa and leave the discussion of what makes a native for somewhere else.

On to Africa, I'm in favor of Germany having a minimal presence, with few if any colonies and instead focusing on land that's strategically (mainly in the geographic sense) valuable. Giving the Congo to Portugal or to the puppet state of Flanders sounds good. They can exploit the resources for Germany and then sell them in the inter-European market in exchange for the Reich's manufactured goods. Think mercantilism through client states practiced all across Europe.
 
Liberty Radio – July 18th, 1955

July 18th, 1955

Liberty Radio

"Ladies and Gentlemen, this is Liberty Radio. If you can hear this, America Lives!"

"America not only lives, but stands on the verge of triumph! Our brave men in arms show once and for all that freedom loving men and women can and WILL defeat the serfs of tyranny in a open battle. Unlike the plains of Europe, on this battlefield there have been no traitors to tear at us from within."

"Soldiers of the Confederacy if you can hear this throw down your arms. There will be mercy. You have been tricked, lied to. We understand and are ready to welcome you back to the fold of free peoples of the world. Do not surrender your lives vainly for a pair of German puppets and lapdogs! Chose Life. Chose freedom. Chose Honor. How many of you rebelled to end war? Why fight now to prolong it? Food, shelter, and amnesty to those who surrender freely are waiting! Your families are waiting boys. You don't have to die for this. Come Home. America Lives and so should you."

"And let's talk about those German puppets. So called President for Life Earl Kemps Long and Richard Leche. Even now as you are listening ladies and gentlemen they have set themselves up as kings in the remains of Washington D.C, parading themselves to whoever will listen as the rightful rulers of North America. They have sold their souls for German cast offs and scraps and plotted to win a dark empire built on the suffering of their own countrymen. Within the Confederacy they have trod on the Constitutional rights of man and woman, taking away freedom of speech, of association, of religion. But they oppress a smaller and smaller patch of ground with every hour! If you live behind Confederate lines, liberation is coming! From Florida to New York, we are coming and freedom is coming with us! Earl Long, you bootlicker, if you can hear this, know that despite your best treasonous efforts, America Lives!"

"Meanwhile across the seas the fight continues. Japan and Australia fight their own brutal battles for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. They fight on the land, on the seas and in the air. They fight against fascism and communism with every last ounce of strength. Let us not forget their valiant and brave struggles in the face of great and overwhelming odds. They need your help! Every surplus we can produce and send to them strengthens freedom and in turn us. Farmers your wheat, Workers your steel, Ladies your cloth. All of it is needed. They fight to keep the boot of slavery off their neck, do not forsake them!"

"We have been bloodied. We have been brutalized. We have been betrayed. But we have not been beaten. And the End is Not Yet, for as long as America Lives."

"This is Liberty Radio. If you can hear this, despite the best efforts of darkness, America Lives."

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**Again, lets thank frigidmagi for this absolutely wonderful speech he wrote. He has some pretty good skill there. You by any chance in politics? ;)**
 
Great update, another inspiring effort from frigidmagi!:)

The CSA has made considerable gains in the North East but I guess with California out of the war the US has too much depth be knocked out by anything short of a successful drive towards Chicago. Once again the Union armies are on a march to sea.:cool:
 
You by any chance in politics?
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I'm afraid my views would drive both the major parties into opposing me.

For example:

I'm pro letting the gays marry, adopt and basically you know... Be treated as citizens.

I'm not only pro letting law abiding citizens own guns, I think we should make a mass effort to teach everyone the basics of gun safety and use.

So on and so forth. There basically is no organization in the US with a home for me.

Back to the topic, is it me or do you have a Confed armor group isolated up there in Indiana? A good solid push into Michigan would help you out as well I think.

You know I forgot about Flanders completely? Maybe they could take over the Belgium Congo?
 
Looks like you have the CSA by the balls now. Dont let up, keep hitting them hard until they are completely wiped out. Those traitors deserve every bit of it.
 
The CSA will not be given a chance to defeat me. Though they have a large amount of armor in the south, to the north I have practically routed them. They have pressed about 10 - 15 divisions in an attempt to crush my 10 divisions in Boston (now suffering from heavy attrition, as I am out of manpower once again). If I lose Boston, the war could very well turn yet again.

My current focus is to push and cut their front in half. I am driving straight to Washington, and then going to push up from there to crush the large amount of troops stationed there.

Flanders...I forgot about them too :eek:
 
I'm here, putting my vote in for Mattabetsa's Africa plan.
 
It could all go horribly wrong. On the bright side, it looks like you just pocketed some armour - that's good, right?
 
It is very positive. That armor means less for mine to face (I have 6 vs their 9 now).

Once the CSA falls, its time for rebuilding! Airforce needs more fighters and strats. Navy needs an overhaul of ships (outdated destroyers escorting Carriers due to lack of spare IC during the latter half of World War II), as well as transports. The army needs more support brigades, more tanks, more mechanized, and I guess air cavalry. I will have to prioritize, manpower is low :(.

I also need reactors!

That is okay, I can build up MP while I rebuild my nation's IC. Germany seems to also be building IC, but the Soviets are not.
 
You have to make events to cut their MP manually, to represent repopulation campaigns and the demilitarization of servicemen who are unable/unwilling to get back into the armed forces.
 
Actually, I was thinking of making a set of events for Germany to remove divisions (represented by demobilization) as well as a negative offmap MP. Realistically, there will be no showdown between Germany and the US for some time, so it is realistically represented. This also represents the reduction in manpower due to the course of the war, as well as the focus on civilian reconstruction efforts. Of course, though, there would be enough to provide defense against any possible external enemy, such as the Soviet Union. Possibly, a renewed focus on Navy by Germany. Their only threats come from across the Atlantic and on their eastern border. A combined Russia + German defense effort could be the solution to that.

As for the Soviets and the Asia theater, they are still at war and should not get modifier yet.

First military focus (before or during reconstruction) is to help out Australia, New Zealand, and Japan. That is imperative if I am to have any chance of securing democracy's future.

A question to history buffs: What are the chances of Mexico joining the USA in an alliance, assuming the CSA's defeat? I would think they would join the USA, if only to help make sure they are not the target of aggression by central and south American fascist states.
 
{LD}Firestorm said:
A question to history buffs: What are the chances of Mexico joining the USA in an alliance, assuming the CSA's defeat? I would think they would join the USA, if only to help make sure they are not the target of aggression by central and south American fascist states.
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US and Mexico have bloody history but still US is largest and most influentialist tradepartner of Mexico so Mexico has two choises: to isolate herself and being couped by US with domestic support or accept the inventiable. I cant belive there will be US-Germany war over Mexico and after all: Mexico hasnt develop so much from WW1 so if you look reasons look reason for Mexico enters WW1.
 
frigid,you're very welcome here in Europe with your views.Not much help,I know,but still.

Glad to see the US prevailing!Honestly,I feared for the worst.
 
What are the chances of Mexico joining the USA in an alliance, assuming the CSA's defeat? I would think they would join the USA, if only to help make sure they are not the target of aggression by central and south American fascist states.
17-09-2009 07:30
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Honestly? I'm surprised Mexico didn't try to back stab California and Texas. As it stands Mexico has a choice. It can remain neutral. Something that it can see didn't help Venezuela for example at all.

It can join the Axis, right next to an angry, large, revitialized US, knowing that it is unlikely that Germany will ever be able to provide a large amount of troops in the event of war. Also knowing that as a semi-democracy in league with Fascists it is always at risk of being couped, if an election doesn't go the way Germany wants... In such a situation even if Germany wins it won't matter, Mexico will still have been pounded flatter then your average pancake.

Or it can hope the Americans do better this time and join a defensive alliance and during the diplomatic negotiations pull out the best deal possible (techs, money, resources, command and troop agreements etc).

frigid,you're very welcome here in Europe with your views.Not much help,I know,but still.
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Which Europe would that be Faqu? It certainly isn't the United Kingdom where the government would retain the right to decide how many weapons I may own. Nor is it Norway where a friend of mine from there told me if I had fired on and killed a man breaking into my home, I might as well bury him in the backyard and not tell the police. The prison sentence would be about the same he told me. Or France where pistol ownership for the standard citizen has been outright forbidden since 1995. No offense but I highly doubt my views on weapon ownership would be welcome at all.

Apologizes to Firestorm for that, it was offtopic.
 
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