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Jinnai said:
We cannot add pregnancy to the setup. Therefore I gave them a child at the start of the game. This (editing to reflect something that would happen within the year) isn't without president.
Click to expand...

Did this change in DV? When Delsad was added in the CK beta patches, she started off as pregnant. :confused:

Jinnai said:
Historians have decided given circumstances both then and later in life that his chosing to try and restore the Il-Khanate/centralize the state while not taking power himself was atleast partly out of modesty.
Click to expand...

Sounds a little fishy but alright.

Jinnai said:
Even if it's found to be not the case, Hasan should still be loyal. He was the one who put the child-khan in power and wanted the restoration of the Il-Khanate, not to rule himself.

And yes, we now have a child ruler who has rather poor stats and will be a child for several years.
Click to expand...
Agreed.
 
More dynasties

I have found some more medieval dynasties from Croatia, Bosnia, Albania, Montenegro, Bohemia,Georgia, Armenia, Thessaloniki, Byzantium, Crete and Denmark.

I have a few names for Estonia too ..but have not been able to find any cources on those. But can post the too if you wish

#Croatian Dynaties

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200052 }
name = "Bunic"
province = { 467 468 }# Ragusa, Split
}

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200053 }
name = "Gundulic"
province = { 465 466 467 468 }# Ragusa, Split, Zadar, Zachlumia
}

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200054 }
name = "Gucetic"
province = { 467 468 469 }# Ragusa, Split, Zeta
}

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200055 }
name = "Gradic"
province = { 468 469 502 }# Ragusa, Zeta, Rashka
}

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200056 }
name = "Pucic"
province = { 465 466 467 468 }# Ragusa, Split, Zadar, Zachlumia
}

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200057 }
name = "Sorkocevic"
province = { 467 468 469 }# Ragusa, Split, Zeta
}

# Bosnian dynasties
dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200058 }
name = "Balsa"
province = { 463 503 504 }# Rama, Usora, Hum
}

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200059 }
name = "Radenovic"
province = { 463 503 504 }# Rama, Usora, Hum
}

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200060 }
name = "Hradic"
province = { 463 503 504 }# Rama, Usora, Hum
}

# Albanian dynasties

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200061 }
name = "Thopia"
province = { 470 471 472 }# Dyrrachion, Ochrid, Epieros
}

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200062 }
name = "Shpata"
province = { 470 471 472 }# Dyrrachion, Ochrid, Epieros
}

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200063 }
name = "Araniti"
province = { 470 471 472 }# Dyrrachion, Ochrid, Epieros
}

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200064 }
name = "Dukagjini"
province = { 470 471 472 }# Dyrrachion, Ochrid, Epieros
}

# Montenegrian dynasties

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200065 }
name = "Zarkovic"
province = { 468 469 502 }# Ragusa, Zeta, Rashka
}

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200066 }
name = "Crnojvic"
province = { 468 469 502 }# Ragusa, Zeta, Rashka
}

# Thessalonikian dynasties

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200067 }
name = "Neopatras"
province = { 489 490 491 }# Chalkidike, Thessalonike, Thessalia
}

# Byzantine dynasties

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200068 }
name = "Axuches"
province = { 334 337 338 339 343 345 346 470 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 493 494 495 497 560 561 671 678 682 683 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 730 733 737 738 739 741 742 743 744 745 746 747 748 749 750 752 753 754 755 756 757 758 759 760 763 764 947 }
}


dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200069 }
name = "Dasiotes"
province = { 334 337 338 339 343 345 346 470 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 493 494 495 497 560 561 671 678 682 683 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 730 733 737 738 739 741 742 743 744 745 746 747 748 749 750 752 753 754 755 756 757 758 759 760 763 764 947 }
}


dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200070 }
name = "Euphorbenos"
province = { 334 337 338 339 343 345 346 470 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 493 494 495 497 560 561 671 678 682 683 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 730 733 737 738 739 741 742 743 744 745 746 747 748 749 750 752 753 754 755 756 757 758 759 760 763 764 947 }
}


dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200071 }
name = "Gabras"
province = { 334 337 338 339 343 345 346 470 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 493 494 495 497 560 561 671 678 682 683 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 730 733 737 738 739 741 742 743 744 745 746 747 748 749 750 752 753 754 755 756 757 758 759 760 763 764 947 }
}


dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200072 }
name = "Mavrozomes"
province = { 334 337 338 339 343 345 346 470 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 493 494 495 497 560 561 671 678 682 683 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 730 733 737 738 739 741 742 743 744 745 746 747 748 749 750 752 753 754 755 756 757 758 759 760 763 764 947 }
}

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200073 }
name = "Petraloiphas"
province = { 334 337 338 339 343 345 346 470 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 493 494 495 497 560 561 671 678 682 683 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 730 733 737 738 739 741 742 743 744 745 746 747 748 749 750 752 753 754 755 756 757 758 759 760 763 764 947 }
}

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200074 }
name = "Photios"
province = { 334 337 338 339 343 345 346 470 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 493 494 495 497 560 561 671 678 682 683 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 730 733 737 738 739 741 742 743 744 745 746 747 748 749 750 752 753 754 755 756 757 758 759 760 763 764 947 }
}

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200075 }
name = "Syrgiannes"
province = { 334 337 338 339 343 345 346 470 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 493 494 495 497 560 561 671 678 682 683 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 730 733 737 738 739 741 742 743 744 745 746 747 748 749 750 752 753 754 755 756 757 758 759 760 763 764 947 }
}

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200076 }
name = "Taronites"
province = { 334 337 338 339 343 345 346 470 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 493 494 495 497 560 561 671 678 682 683 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 730 733 737 738 739 741 742 743 744 745 746 747 748 749 750 752 753 754 755 756 757 758 759 760 763 764 947 }
}

# Crete/Byzantine families (All based around Constantinople and sent to Crete in 13th century)

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200077 }
name = "Marinos"
province = { 479 480 495 496 497 }# Thrake, Byzantion, Kaliopolis, Chandax, Kaneia
}

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200078 }
name = "Archoleos"
province = { 479 480 495 496 497 }# Thrake, Byzantion, Kaliopolis, Chandax, Kaneia
}

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200079 }
name = "Chortatzis"
province = { 479 480 495 496 497 }# Thrake, Byzantion, Kaliopolis, Chandax, Kaneia
}

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200080 }
name = "Mousouros"
province = { 479 480 495 496 497 }# Thrake, Byzantion, Kaliopolis, Chandax, Kaneia
}

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200081 }
name = "Varouchas"
province = { 479 480 495 496 497 }# Thrake, Byzantion, Kaliopolis, Chandax, Kaneia
}

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200082 }
name = "Lithios"
province = { 479 480 495 496 497 }# Thrake, Byzantion, Kaliopolis, Chandax, Kaneia
}

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200083 }
name = "Vlastos"
province = { 479 480 495 496 497 }# Thrake, Byzantion, Kaliopolis, Chandax, Kaneia
}

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200084 }
name = "Kalafatis"
province = { 479 480 495 496 497 }# Thrake, Byzantion, Kaliopolis, Chandax, Kaneia
}

# Bohemian dynasties

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200085 }
name = "Czernin"
province = { 362 363 436 437 438 439 440 441 446}# Opava, Ostrava, Moravia, Hradec Kralove, Liberec, Praha, Plzen, Cheb, Usti nad Labem
}

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200086 }
name = "Kinsti"
province = { 362 363 436 437 438 439 440 441 446}# Opava, Ostrava, Moravia, Hradec Kralove, Liberec, Praha, Plzen, Cheb, Usti nad Labem
}

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200087 }
name = "Lichtenstejnove"
province = { 446 449 455 }# Moravia, Österreich, Steiermark
}

# Georgian dynasties

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200088 }
name = "Khosroid"
province = { 676 677 679 680 681 }# Kakheti, Guria, Kartli, Tao, Ani
}

# Armenian dynasties


dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200089 }
name = "Abamelik"
province = { 667 668 669 670 671 672 678 680 681 682 683 684 699 700 701 702 703 704 }# All Armenia
}

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200090 }
name = "Amatuni"
province = { 667 668 669 670 671 672 678 680 681 682 683 684 699 700 701 702 703 704 }# All Armenia
}

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200091 }
name = "Hasan-Jalalyan"
province = { 667 668 669 670 671 672 678 680 681 682 683 684 699 700 701 702 703 704 }# All Armenia
}

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200092 }
name = "Obelian"
province = { 670 671 672 682 }# Suenik, Azerbaijan, Dwin, Vaspurakan
}

# Danish medieval dynasties

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200093 }
name = "Ahlefeldt" #Based in Holstein
province = { 263 264 265 267 }# Holstein, Slesvig, Fyn, Jylland
}

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200094 }
name = "Banner" # Based in Jylland
province = { 265 267 }# Fyn, Jylland
}

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200095 }
name = "Grøn"
province = { 263 264 265 266 267 305 }# Holstein, Slesvig, Fyn, Jylland, Sjælland, Bornholm
}

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200096 }
name = "Pagh" # Based on Fyn and Slesvig
province = { 263 264 265 }# Holstein, Slesvig, Fyn
}

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200097 }
name = "Rosenkrantz" #Based in Jylland
province = { 264 267 }# Slesvig, Jylland
}

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200098 }
name = "Dosenrode"
province = { 263 264 265 266 267 302 303 305 }# All danish provinces
}

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200099 }
name = "Ulfstand" #Based in Skåne
province = { 266 302 303 305 }# Sjælland, Skåne, Halland, Bornholm
}

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200100 }
name = "Hummersbüttel" #German family originally from Hamburg, moved to Slesvig and Holstein
province = { 261 262 263 264 }# Hamburg, Lübeck, Holstein, Slesvig

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200101 }
name = "Lunge" #Based in Sjælland
province = { 265 266 303 305 }# Fyn, Sjælland, Skåne, Bornholm
}

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200102 }
name = "Manderup" #Based in Sjælland
province = { 265 266 303}# Fyn, Sjælland, Skåne
}

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200103 }
name = "Panter" #Based in Jylland
province = { 264 265 267 }# Fyn, Slesvig, Jylland
}

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200104 }
name = "Rosensparre" #Based in Skåne
province = { 302 303 }# Skåne, Halland
}

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200105 }
name = "Stenbrikke" #Based in Jylland
province = { 264 265 267 }# Slesvig, Jylland, Fyn
}

dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200106 }
name = "Sture" #Based in Jylland
province = { 264 265 266 267 }# Slesvig, Fyn, Sjælland, Jylland
}
Click to expand...
 
Duchy/Kingdome abbreviations

Does anyone have a list of which duchies/kingdoms use which abbreviations?? ... or is there a file where I can easily see which is which??

I am trying to change a few CoA if I can find some nice ones ...but not all the abbreviations I can recognize. Also some of the duchy abbreviations have been reused for new duchies and such.
 
Duke of Aquitaine 1066

I stumbled across this site: Dukes of Aquitaine

... and found that the ruler of the Duchy of Aquitaine in 1066 was actually Guy-Geoffrey(Gui-Geoffroi) ... also known as William VIII, who inherited his brother Pierre-Guillaume i 1058.

So I think the name of the ruler should be changed. Seems the marriage to Matoeda is correct enough. He divorces her in 1068.
 
TempestDK said:
I stumbled across this site: Dukes of Aquitaine

... and found that the ruler of the Duchy of Aquitaine in 1066 was actually Guy-Geoffrey(Gui-Geoffroi) ... also known as William VIII, who inherited his brother Pierre-Guillaume i 1058.

So I think the name of the ruler should be changed. Seems the marriage to Matoeda is correct enough. He divorces her in 1068.
Click to expand...


The ruler is correct, he just adopted different names during his livehood.

First he was named Guy

Then he named himself Geoffrey after his stepfather

Then when he became duke, after the death of his brother in 1066, he named himself William

So William/Guillaume is his correct name in 1066

What could be done is give him the Occitan version of Guillaume, which is Guilhém. But that goes for all Occitan rulers, they mostly started with the Frankish version of their name.

EDIT
I didn't follow your link cause it directly starts downloading something, but I doubt it will say something different then what I have said. :)
 
Last edited:
TempestDK said:
Does anyone have a list of which duchies/kingdoms use which abbreviations?? ... or is there a file where I can easily see which is which??

I am trying to change a few CoA if I can find some nice ones ...but not all the abbreviations I can recognize. Also some of the duchy abbreviations have been reused for new duchies and such.
Click to expand...

Look in C:\Program Files\Paradox Entertainment\Crusader Kings\config\world_names.csv and extra_text.csv
 
As Veld states, look in those files for a listing.
Some tags are still unused I believe, I just haven't found the time/interest to scour the setup and scenario files and make a full listing. I don't think there's any free duchy tags though :(
 
Code: 
dynasty = {
id = { type = 12 id = 200087 }
name = "Lichtenstejnove"
province = { 446 449 455 }# Moravia, Österreich, Steiermark
}

Wouldn't that be just 'von Liechtenstein' in österreich and Steiermark ?
 
Garbon said:
Did this change in DV? When Delsad was added in the CK beta patches, she started off as pregnant. :confused:
Click to expand...
Can you site her id? I want to check then and make certain she also wasn't married to another man. It may very well work, but the child would then be Hasan's, which would be worse than the current setup.
Garbon said:
Sounds a little fishy but alright.
Click to expand...
I understand where you're coming from since often defacto rulers do similar setups. My guess is they found some specific evidence that supported he had a more nobler goal than just trying to rule through the Il-Khanate's and I beleive it was that he was trying to setup a state where they could have the kind of central control they used to, which would normally seem counter to what many defacto rulers would want.
 
Veldmaarschalk said:
The ruler is correct, he just adopted different names during his livehood.

First he was named Guy

Then he named himself Geoffrey after his stepfather

Then when he became duke, after the death of his brother in 1066, he named himself William

So William/Guillaume is his correct name in 1066

What could be done is give him the Occitan version of Guillaume, which is Guilhém. But that goes for all Occitan rulers, they mostly started with the Frankish version of their name.

EDIT
I didn't follow your link cause it directly starts downloading something, but I doubt it will say something different then what I have said. :)
Click to expand...


Hmmm ... weird ...it doesn't download anything when I open it ...maybe because I use Firefox.

Following taken from the site I linked to.

William VIII (1025 -
25 September 1086), born Guy-Geoffrey
(Gui-Geoffroi), was duke of Gascony
(1052-1086), and then
duke of Aquitaine and count of Poitiers (as William VI)
between 1058 and 1086, succeeding his brother William VII
(Pierre-Guillaume).
Click to expand...

Anyways ....you guys seem to know more about these things than I do ...I just thought it was a wrong name by accident, since it stated that he was Guy.

As for the Lichtenstien thing you are probably right ...didn't check for that.
 
Veldmaarschalk said:
Look in C:\Program Files\Paradox Entertainment\Crusader Kings\config\world_names.csv and extra_text.csv
Click to expand...

Cool ..thanks :D .... would never have thought to look there :)
 
King Harold Godwineson had several bastard-children

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLAND, AngloSaxon & Danish Kings.htm#_Toc160172299

http://genealogy.euweb.cz/brit/wessex.html#H2

The age of the sons is based on the facts that in the late 1060's they invaded/raided Cornwall

Code: 
character = {
	id = { type = 10 id = 171141002 }
	name = "Godwin"
	gender = male
	dynasty = { type = 12 id =755 }
	father = { type = 10 id = 122 }
	mother = { type = 10 id = 1100417 }
	country = LEIN
	religion = catholic
	culture = Saxon
	birthdate = { year = 1042 month = january day = 1 } #estimate
	dna = "54077703061402"
	attributes = {
		martial = 8
		diplomacy = 5
		intrigue = 3
		stewardship = 4
		health = 5
		fertility = 5
	}
	traits = {
		
		bastard = yes
		tough_soldier = yes
	}
}
character = {
	id = { type = 10 id = 171141003 }
	name = "Edmund"
	gender = male
	dynasty = { type = 12 id =755 }
	father = { type = 10 id = 122 }
	mother = { type = 10 id = 1100417 }
	country = LEIN
	religion = catholic
	culture = Saxon
	birthdate = { year = 1044 month = january day = 1 } #estimate
	dna = "54007708061415"
	attributes = {
		martial = 7
		diplomacy = 5
		intrigue = 5
		stewardship = 7
		health = 5
		fertility = 5
	}
	traits = {
		knowledged_tactician = yes
		bastard = yes
		
	}
}
character = {
	id = { type = 10 id = 171141004 }
	name = "Magnus"
	gender = male
	dynasty = { type = 12 id =755 }
	father = { type = 10 id = 122 }
	mother = { type = 10 id = 1100417 }
	country = LEIN
	religion = catholic
	culture = Saxon
	birthdate = { year = 1046 month = january day = 1 } #estimate
	dna = "54067708281417"
	attributes = {
		martial = 4
		diplomacy = 4
		intrigue = 3
		stewardship = 7
		health = 5
		fertility = 5
	}
	traits = {
		bastard = yes
		proven_accountant = yes
	}
}
character = {
	id = { type = 10 id = 171141005 }
	name = "Gunhilda"
	gender = female
	dynasty = { type = 12 id =755 }
	father = { type = 10 id = 122 }
	mother = { type = 10 id = 1100417 }
	country = LEIN
	religion = catholic
	culture = Saxon
	birthdate = { year = 1048 month = january day = 1 } #estimate
	dna = "54037709091402"
	attributes = {
		martial = 4
		diplomacy = 4
		intrigue = 6
		stewardship = 6
		health = 5
		fertility = 5
	}
	traits = {
		bastard = yes
		martial_cleric = yes
	}
}

By his mistress Edith 'Swannenhals'

Code: 
character = {
	id = { type = 10 id = 1100417 }
	name = "Edith Swannenhals"
	gender = female
	dynasty = { type = 12 id =105  } #of Norfolk
	country = LEIN
	religion = catholic
	culture = Saxon
	birthdate = { year = 1024 month = january day = 1 } #estimate
	dna = "08029006003306"
	attributes = {
		martial = 4
		diplomacy = 6
		intrigue = 4
		stewardship = 4
		health = 5
		fertility = 8
	}
	traits = {
		lustful = yes
		flamboyant_schemer = yes
	}


}
 
Jinnai said:
Can you site her id? I want to check then and make certain she also wasn't married to another man. It may very well work, but the child would then be Hasan's, which would be worse than the current setup.
Click to expand...
I'll get back to you on that.

edit: From DIVPv9.2

Code: 
character = {
	id = { type = 10 id = 78041 }
	name = "Delsad Katun"
	gender = female
	dynasty = { type = 12 id = 101912 }
	father = { type = 10 id = 78003 }
	country = MBAG
	religion = moslem
	culture = mongol
	score = { gold = 0 prestige = 50 piety = 100 }
	birthdate = { year = 1319 month = january day = 0 }
	dna = "04000403000004"
	[b][color=gold]impregnationdate = "13360500"
	childs_father = { type = 10 id = 78006 }[/color][/b]
	attributes = {
		martial = 7
		diplomacy = 6
		intrigue = 7
		stewardship = 7
		health = 4
		fertility = 4
	}
	traits = {
		amateurish_pettifogger = yes
		stress_symptom = yes
		sunni = yes
	}
}

Character 78006 is Abu Sa'id

Jinnai said:
I understand where you're coming from since often defacto rulers do similar setups. My guess is they found some specific evidence that supported he had a more nobler goal than just trying to rule through the Il-Khanate's and I beleive it was that he was trying to setup a state where they could have the kind of central control they used to, which would normally seem counter to what many defacto rulers would want.
Click to expand...

Yeah...I mean how does him installing a child on a throne support that? It seems like Musa (who he defeated) or Togha Temur would have been better for the role, even if Musa was supposed to be a puppet.
 
Garbon said:
I'll get back to you on that.

edit: From DIVPv9.2

Code: 
character = {
	id = { type = 10 id = 78041 }
	name = "Delsad Katun"
	gender = female
	dynasty = { type = 12 id = 101912 }
	father = { type = 10 id = 78003 }
	country = MBAG
	religion = moslem
	culture = mongol
	score = { gold = 0 prestige = 50 piety = 100 }
	birthdate = { year = 1319 month = january day = 0 }
	dna = "04000403000004"
	[b][color=gold]impregnationdate = "13360500"
	childs_father = { type = 10 id = 78006 }[/color][/b]
	attributes = {
		martial = 7
		diplomacy = 6
		intrigue = 7
		stewardship = 7
		health = 4
		fertility = 4
	}
	traits = {
		amateurish_pettifogger = yes
		stress_symptom = yes
		sunni = yes
	}
}

Character 78006 is Abu Sa'id
Click to expand...
Ok then it should be changed (if it isn't like that in 9.2...haven't checked)
Garbon said:
Yeah...I mean how does him installing a child on a throne support that? It seems like Musa (who he defeated) or Togha Temur would have been better for the role, even if Musa was supposed to be a puppet.
Click to expand...
Well Musa i believe directly opposed him and he and Hasan didn't get along. As for Temur, well I think he didn't just want a candidate. He did want to rule from behind, but as a way to set up a long-lasting state and thus can be seen to abandon anyone who seemed to become too weak for a centralizing figure.

You may have a right that modest might not be the best trait, but how best to show a man who really was interested in the long-term stability of the area and only ruled like that because of his concern? Do we have such a trait? Should we consider using one of those 3 free traits for someone who has a long-term view of things?

Also, have you figured out any ways to adequately represent his friendship with the late Abu Sa'id?
 
Jinnai said:
Ok then it should be changed (if it isn't like that in 9.2...haven't checked)
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That's from 9.2, so we should probably just remove the daughter you had added.

Jinnai said:
Well Musa i believe directly opposed him and he and Hasan didn't get along. As for Temur, well I think he didn't just want a candidate. He did want to rule from behind, but as a way to set up a long-lasting state and thus can be seen to abandon anyone who seemed to become too weak for a centralizing figure.
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He picked a child. A child ruler is pretty much the weakest figure one can pick, which shows by the fact that the Il-khanate continued to decline / we expect it to fall apart in game.

Jinnai said:
You may have a right that modest might not be the best trait, but how best to show a man who really was interested in the long-term stability of the area and only ruled like that because of his concern?
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The best I could think is wise...although was it really wise to put up a child and fight off able-bodied pretenders?

Jinnai said:
Also, have you figured out any ways to adequately represent his friendship with the late Abu Sa'id?
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What effects do you want represented?
 
Garbon said:
He picked a child. A child ruler is pretty much the weakest figure one can pick, which shows by the fact that the Il-khanate continued to decline / we expect it to fall apart in game.

The best I could think is wise...although was it really wise to put up a child and fight off able-bodied pretenders?
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Depends on how you look at it, I guess. He didn't want any pretenders taking the throne and he wanted a strong, stable, central government. He went so far as to stop any pretender who might have gained power at the cost of long-term stability and growth.

So short term, it wasn't wise probably as it led to denigration and turmoil, but long term, his polices were probably the best thing for the region.
Garbon said:
What effects do you want represented?
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Abu Sa'id's friendship with Hassan, beyond one of the reason's he probably married his wife, had long lasting ramifications even to the point that his friendship influenced the Safavids as well as his policies.
 
Jinnai said:
Depends on how you look at it, I guess. He didn't want any pretenders taking the throne and he wanted a strong, stable, central government. He went so far as to stop any pretender who might have gained power at the cost of long-term stability and growth.

So short term, it wasn't wise probably as it led to denigration and turmoil, but long term, his polices were probably the best thing for the region.
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The child was also a pretender. ;)

Jinnai said:
Abu Sa'id's friendship with Hassan, beyond one of the reason's he probably married his wife, had long lasting ramifications even to the point that his friendship influenced the Safavids as well as his policies.
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How so? I'm trying to get to something tangible that we could represent.
 
Garbon said:
The child was also a pretender. ;)
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That's true and he went through several. My guess is that it has been decided his view was more of a long-term stability of the empire/region (in that order) and the other pretenders it was just about taking power so they could rule. Maybe wise is best here, I dunno, because it caused a lot of short-term instability which might have been possible to avoid.
Garbon said:
How so? I'm trying to get to something tangible that we could represent.
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??? Not sure what you mean here...seems like i got the friendships wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasan_Buzurg
 
Jinnai said:
That's true and he went through several. My guess is that it has been decided his view was more of a long-term stability of the empire/region (in that order) and the other pretenders it was just about taking power so they could rule. Maybe wise is best here, I dunno, because it caused a lot of short-term instability which might have been possible to avoid.
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It just feels to me like a modern rehabilitation given what info we have about the exact actions he took.

Jinnai said:
??? Not sure what you mean here...seems like i got the friendships wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasan_Buzurg
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Earlier you had said Sharaf al-Din. My question was just that I'm curious as to what you think needs representing.
 
Garbon said:
It just feels to me like a modern rehabilitation given what info we have about the exact actions he took.
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It could very well be that. I think their reasoning is tied with the title he used and refused anything higher than "Uleg Beg".

Maybe wise+proud? or wise+selfish? or wise+reckless?
Garbon said:
Earlier you had said Sharaf al-Din. My question was just that I'm curious as to what you think needs representing.
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His lasting impact with Sharaf al-Din's descendants.
 
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