First, Uncivilized is a social concept. But in Vicky it stops you from creating a mobilization pool and from transferring provinces in the trade screen and research values are a fraction.
This shouldn't be. You should always be able to trade and if necessary mobilization should be a tech to learn. Any negative conditions should be a consequence of some missing tech or cultural/religious/political problem, not a result of someone else's idea that you are behind.
Hardcoded. Nothing we can do.
Also it seems, many of the 'civilized' nations were less developed. Something wrong here.
I can't think of any in-game which are more technologically advanced than civilised nations upon start up.
Anyway, back to Tibet. I did pretty well meeting requirements, though it took a LONG while. Needing to research any of the 'ocean' techs was ridiculous. Not only that but it would never give me the ones necessary for 'civing'. In desperation I spent ten prestige to change to 'naval-industrial' and still it would give me every naval tech to learn except what I needed.
I ended 1935 still trying to finish researching steamers.
I had to research about 8 useless naval techs. Silly.
You should've traded techs some more. There is what, 150 techs? The average time of research for one tech is a year, yet there is only 100 years in the game...
As for it not showing up, well that seems bizarre unless you were very far behind in the tech race. This is why tech trading is essential also.
I'm not that familiar with the event script, could there be a test if the nation is land locked and an automatic alternative provided?
Would require a lot of events. Really not worth the slowing down of the engine which it will cause - much easier to just provide a generic alternative for all.
Why is early railroad necessary? The US and England are civilized nations and they are are experimental railroad.
'Civilised' status is relative. At the start of the game no-one has that tech, so their other technological advantages highlight that they are of a superior standing. By the time other nations have caught up almost (99% certain) every other civilised nation will have that tech.
As I said above, however, the idea of being civilised or not was subjective. It was the Western European powers who primarily defined what was "civilised" or not. This is why I suggested that diplomacy should be an aspect of civilising (though having good relations with 3 GPs would require a lot of event text, so perhaps it's best to have only 1(.
The same conditions for being 'civilized' should apply to all nations.
They are. There's some nation-specific routes, but the generic way is still there.
Also. Having a tech isn't really indicative of being civilized.
Well... it is. It shows how technologically advanced a country is, and therefore the capabilities of that nation to compete in a "civilised" world.
Applying that tech is necessary. So the scripts could test for if the transport level of a state was - 50%, indicating that a rail system has been put into practice.
Again, we can't. The engine is far too limited.
WE DO NEED AN ALTERNATIVE CIV TEST FOR LAND LOCKED NATIONS.
Yeah, and we will. However, it will be available to all uncivs.
We need a better more meaningful definition of what Uncivilized means and its effects. Those effects should be primarily concerned with social interactions between 'civilized' and 'uncivilized' nations.
I agree. This is why I suggested good relations with at least 1 great power being a requirement. It was the "civilised" great powers who decided what was civilised or not.
Civilized is something of a relative term. China was once considered the preeminent civilized nation until only a few centuries ago.
Yep, hence the point about the railways tech requirement above. Chinese was considered "civilised" as it was advanced (hence the importance of technology on status).
My suggestion is a more dynamic definition of uncivilized and no specific practical penalties for the designation, only social ones.
There's nothing we can do about the hardcoded nature of being an unciv. We've tried to make it fairer in a number of ways by having hidden events which 'level the playing field' by removing the double research malus they suffer (penalties on research as well as literacy growth, which contributes to research).
This means you could 'fall back' into being 'uncivilized' if your tech/infrastructure fell too far behind.
Again, this dynamic system would require too many events. They would slow the game down to an unbearable level. Think, nearly 300 countries to consider, 150 techs, checking against every other country too. It would break the game.
I would also dispute the relevance of this - the GP/Independent nation thing is one thing, but such a relative system would be far too fine and needless. Moreover, it shouldn't just be set that the bottom, say, 100 are the only uncivs.
