CO Word of the Week #15

[Potoroo]

I've already done it. The answer is: nothing happens except you can zone anything anywhere. It's use appears to be nothing more than an inhibitor.



Sure, maybe. I took the reply by @Sc0rpy4 to be relatively accurate, if not also a bit dramatic.

Then again, you should probably recognize that there are a lot of small things that could be done to make the game more playable in the interim. Also, another thing, if it takes so long to get these patches through QA to do all that testing -- how is it they can't update their community on what they're planning to fix explicitly? Opening a conversation on things that are actively being worked on versus not would be a productive dialog.

Finally, throwing us back to Paradox for timeline update when they've literally been doing them the entire time... On the Paradox website?

I'm sorry, but if you're looking to point your finger at anything unreasonable.. Respectfully, you've got it in the wrong direction.
Because you're right, we don't know anything about the pipeline, who's working on what, what the timelines are, or the working conditions.
What you should be asking yourself is this: If a bunch of random software engineers are willing to post here in dismay and awe, how bad is it really?

Oh, I have thoughts on what's happening at Tampere but I'm keenly aware of the difference between speculation and reality so I generally keep them to myself. Sometimes I will comment when I think someone crosses the line between reasonable criticism into being obviously provocative because they're angry at CO. This tends to draw the ire of the hive mind but so be it. An example might be, say, someone who blithely pronounces that CO could and should have fixed the land value bug four months ago, as if it were one of the easy fixes that CO addressed in their seven "hot fixes" since launch. If it really were an easy fix it would have been done alongside all the others (garbage, mail, etc). The fact that CO didn't fix it in toto (.19f adjusted the way it was calculated but Mariina said at least twice that it was still being worked on) should tell people that there's something going on they don't understand. Not understanding is not an excuse to substitute wishful thinking and that applies to "random software engineers" as much as anybody.

I repeat: Nobody's defending the state of the game. The argument is about people who think they know better than the developers how to fix it when they manifestly do not. It may be that if the technically competent among us were given detailed access to the code and documentation they could make some pertinent suggestions - open source Cities Skylines, anyone? - but until and unless people have access to that sort of detail they are simply assuming things that as you've pointed out, right now we just don't know. Assumptions are not facts and people shouldn't bash the devs on the basis of assumptions, which is what happens in here from time to time. It's wrong.

 

[Mdizzl3]

Why are the comments being ignored? Where is the Community Manager?

Very absent. I'm sure they are trying to work out a way to react to this. They really shouldn't let the CEO embarrass herself like this. Pointless

 

[shiiroo26]

Have you followed CK3? PDX absolutely does hold back announcements simply in order to release them at some more marketable dates, no matter what the impact on development is.

More marketable date??? Marketable date was 6-7 months ago. Anything pass that is simply overdue.

 

[AveXxYT]

Man its sad how it is going and i dont mean to be mean to the Dev Team and everybody that is sitting behind the development. BUT... there is sadly always a but....

I stopped playing the game on January 2nd.... and by now i regret that i have bought the 90€ Ultimate Edition. I still have hope for the game, but from my standpoint it seems it will take years to be atleast similar to what Cities Skylines 1 was when that got released.... Cities Skylines 2 brings in a lot of new exiting features, especially the Road building (in some regards, not all) much better then CS1. But being that it has been half a year since Release and we still not have official Mod Support/ a workshop of some sorts, is what is killing it for me right now.

When it was released it was a huge let down, even if it worked OKish on my System. But especially compared to CS1, the Release was a Car Crash, but one of those where the brakes dont work and your car drives into the back of a Semi Truck. There are a lot of other issues, its not just mod support.

I still want to believe that this game will be great someday, but it is getting harder and harder to keep that up..
It is clear that CS2 is one of those games that got released raw, it felt like i was playing a Alpha Test of a game. As is with many other games nowadays.

And the following goes for EVERY Game Developer and Publisher out there:

I remember the times where games that got released where actually finished! Why where they finished and almost Bug free in most cases? Well of course the Tech was not where we are today, maybe less complex to some degree, but the single biggest reason was that most people didnt have fast internet or even Internet at all. You couldnt put out a 20 GB Patch to fix your game afterwards. (to be fair my biggest HDD was 20GB back then, but the point stands). I remember getting patches through Magazines like, Computer Bild Spiele, Gamestar and so on, because there was no other way. But the game that was released was a Solid Product. The user wasnt the Alpha or Beta Tester.

I would like to get back to that, if that means postponing a release, so be it. I, and i believe many, many others out there would be fine with that, if that means that we get a good and fully running game with most, if not all the features that it was supposed to have. I know its also a Financial Decision for the Publisher and for the Studio behind it. But i see it in another way. If you have a good release, you will sell more, you will get good reviews from Users and the Press, that enhancing your sells in the long run.

I had many of my friends, not buying the game, some (that have even more hours then i do in CS1) even saying because how the game was released, they would never buy it.


Again i am not trying to be mean to anyone, please see this as a worried post by a fan of many other Paradox Games and a Gamer that has been gaming for almost 24 years. But this is the sad reality. This game should never have been released the way it was.

 

[Xperian]

I've now started playing Theotown and even this game keeps me more entertained than Cities Skylines 2.

Simcity 3000 is also currently on sale on Steam. It might be up your alley if you liked Theotown.

 

[MTO35]

Simcity 3000 is also currently on sale on Steam. It might be up your alley if you liked Theotown.

Yes, I played Sim City 3000 over 20 years ago and I'm wondering if it even works on modern systems or how does it work?

 

[MTO35]

Man its sad how it is going and i dont mean to be mean to the Dev Team and everybody that is sitting behind the development. BUT... there is sadly always a but....

I stopped playing the game on January 2nd.... and by now i regret that i have bought the 90€ Ultimate Edition. I still have hope for the game, but from my standpoint it seems it will take years to be atleast similar to what Cities Skylines 1 was when that got released.... Cities Skylines 2 brings in a lot of new exiting features, especially the Road building (in some regards, not all) much better then CS1. But being that it has been half a year since Release and we still not have official Mod Support/ a workshop of some sorts, is what is killing it for me right now.

When it was released it was a huge let down, even if it worked OKish on my System. But especially compared to CS1, the Release was a Car Crash, but one of those where the brakes dont work and your car drives into the back of a Semi Truck. There are a lot of other issues, its not just mod support.

I still want to believe that this game will be great someday, but it is getting harder and harder to keep that up..
It is clear that CS2 is one of those games that got released raw, it felt like i was playing a Alpha Test of a game. As is with many other games nowadays.

And the following goes for EVERY Game Developer and Publisher out there:

I remember the times where games that got released where actually finished! Why where they finished and almost Bug free in most cases? Well of course the Tech was not where we are today, maybe less complex to some degree, but the single biggest reason was that most people didnt have fast internet or even Internet at all. You couldnt put out a 20 GB Patch to fix your game afterwards. (to be fair my biggest HDD was 20GB back then, but the point stands). I remember getting patches through Magazines like, Computer Bild Spiele, Gamestar and so on, because there was no other way. But the game that was released was a Solid Product. The user wasnt the Alpha or Beta Tester.

I would like to get back to that, if that means postponing a release, so be it. I, and i believe many, many others out there would be fine with that, if that means that we get a good and fully running game with most, if not all the features that it was supposed to have. I know its also a Financial Decision for the Publisher and for the Studio behind it. But i see it in another way. If you have a good release, you will sell more, you will get good reviews from Users and the Press, that enhancing your sells in the long run.

I had many of my friends, not buying the game, some (that have even more hours then i do in CS1) even saying because how the game was released, they would never buy it.


Again i am not trying to be mean to anyone, please see this as a worried post by a fan of many other Paradox Games and a Gamer that has been gaming for almost 24 years. But this is the sad reality. This game should never have been released the way it was.

As someone who grew up in the 90s, I agree with you.
There was little or no opportunity to fix games afterwards with patches. In any case not to the extent that it is today.
Especially since there were already a lot of games (especially for the PC) that were simply junk and people were more likely to fooled of the design of the packaging or the advertising on TV or some gaming magazine.
You once made the mistake as a customer and preferred to borrow the games from friends or from a video store/video rental store to see whether the game in question was any good or not.
I think it definitely wasn't easier for developers to make games back then, especially when 3DFX-enabled games started, because you had to experiment a lot and try out new things.
There were no construction kits for engines where you could simply copy and paste textures or 3D models and then change them if necessary. You often had to do everything yourself.

 

[Ne0Que]

You know what also bothers me? Back in the summer of 2023, Paradox and Colossal Order spammed the internet with "communication".

The way you guys communicate to us right now is really horrible. I feel You only really communicated to us in depth when you needed our money.

When the money was needed, I could see you everywhere. But now the money has been collected, we only hear from you once a while. And the wow is just a riddle / another copy and paste from months ago.

Where is the community manager, do you even have one? Because back in July it seemed you had one. Where are the dev blogs now? Hire a media team, show us what is worked on. COMMUNICATE.

Not with childish wow marketing talk. No! Show what you are doing. For example, show videos of the studio. The team. Different aspects of the game.

You could educate us about how it all goes in your studio. Processes.

It could spark a lot more understanding and patience. I would love to see some dev videos about decisions, simulation, the asset editor and how it is build. Or any in depth backscene "working on" Videos. Maybe how simulation aspects are implemented and why.

Show us how a in game building is modeled. Show us the whole process from begin to end. Be open. It will not hurt you, or slow slow you down. You can hire a media team to do it for as long it is needed.

Your audience will be thankful. It will generate more engagement and understanding. And it also will be helpful for modders to learn how stuff has been done.

 

[Lys91]

Ok, I had to see how ChatGPT would write a "Word of the Week". Here it is:

Greetings, Mayors and City Builders!

This week, we're addressing a peculiar issue that has been causing some unexpected challenges in your urban paradises – the "Dog Bug." As many of you have noticed, our virtual cities have been experiencing an unusual influx of canine residents. While we all love our furry friends, this overpopulation has led to performance issues, primarily due to excessive path-finding calculations.

We want to assure you that our team is actively working on a solution to reduce the number of dogs spawned in the game, ensuring a smoother and more enjoyable experience for all players. In the meantime, we recommend keeping an eye on your city's dog parks and adjusting their placement if necessary to help mitigate the impact.

We understand that issues like this can be frustrating, and we appreciate your patience and constructive feedback as we work to resolve them. It's important to remember that behind every game are people who are passionate about creating enjoyable experiences for you. Let's continue to support each other and maintain a positive and respectful community, even in the face of challenges.

Stay tuned for further updates, and thank you for your ongoing support and love for Cities: Skylines II. Together, we'll continue to build incredible cities and overcome any obstacles that come our way.

Happy building, and keep those tails wagging (just not too many at once)!

-The Cities: Skylines II Team

I think it is not too far off.

 

[purplegamer]

You only really communicated to us in depth when you needed our money.

This is one of the things about modern game developers/publishers that really bothers me. They're so vocal and communicative, active and engaged when they're trying to sell us the game. But the moment things switch over to maintaining the community--especially if there's been a rough launch--they scatter like roaches when the light comes on.

It's transparent what lies behind the behavior and yet we allow them to treat us like this.

 

[UsmanSyed]

I agree. Showing stuff and what you guys are working on, how its being done etc will surely make people more patience and willing. The PR talk only can work for a certain time, after that it all becomes smokes and mirrors. The community managers should be more active, and respond honestly and transparently, Once we get to know to know that yes, they are working and actually listening to us, they will become more understanding and will cool down.

As of right now, each one will come up with their own theories, and the worst part would be that most of not all them would turn out to be true. And no one wants that to to happen.

 

[BoraBora]

You know what also bothers me? Back in the summer of 2023, Paradox and Colossal Order spammed the internet with "communication".

The way you guys communicate to us right now is really horrible. I feel You only really communicated to us in depth when you needed our money.

When the money was needed, I could see you everywhere. But now the money has been collected, we only hear from you once a while. And the wow is just a riddle / another copy and paste from months ago.

Where is the community manager, do you even have one? Because back in July it seemed you had one. Where are the dev blogs now? Hire a media team, show us what is worked on. COMMUNICATE.

Not with childish wow marketing talk. No! Show what you are doing. For example, show videos of the studio. The team. Different aspects of the game.

You could educate us about how it all goes in your studio. Processes.

It could spark a lot more understanding and patience. I would love to see some dev videos about decisions, simulation, the asset editor and how it is build. Or any in depth backscene "working on" Videos. Maybe how simulation aspects are implemented and why.

Show us how a in game building is modeled. Show us the whole process from begin to end. Be open. It will not hurt you, or slow slow you down. You can hire a media team to do it for as long it is needed.

Your audience will be thankful. It will generate more engagement and understanding. And it also will be helpful for modders to learn how stuff has been done.

If CS II was a good game, I could be interested, maybe even entertained, by various "making of". As it is, I don't care how CO are making their games, I want them to deliver useful patches and finish the game I paid for. I bought CS II to play with, not to watch videos about CO. We already had plenty, anyway. The only communication I'm interested in is about releases. WHAT will be fixed and WHEN. The rest I don't care.

 

[erkinalp]

As there is the Thunderstore, why even bothering implementing your own service. Thunderstore would have been enough, Steam Workshop would have been enough. With the amount of employees you guys have. Put the R&D and the work in the actual game instead of a Mod service that already exists.

Paradox Mods is managed by CO (developer of Cities:Skylines) and Iceflake studios(Finland branch of Paradox, developer of Surviving the Aftermath)....

 

[wieji]

What an absolute joke. This game has been out for five months now and you guys still havent finished modding yet. When third parties have better modding platforms than you that really says something

 

[avguy2]

Ok, I had to see how ChatGPT would write a "Word of the Week". Here it is:


I think it is not too far off.

Pretty sure that was WOW #9 or something.

In other news from CO: No other news.

Disappointing but expected.

 

[Xperian]

Yes, I played Sim City 3000 over 20 years ago and I'm wondering if it even works on modern systems or how does it work?

The Steam version works on modern systems. If for whatever reason it doesn't work for you, you can just refund the game within the 2 hour refund window that Steam provides.
I used this guide to get it working well on my computer: https://community.simtropolis.com/forums/topic/763034-simcity-3k-unlimited-on-steam/

 

[TripleAgent]

Next week could we get a more technical explanation behind the issue with asset import and why it's been unsolvable for months?

 

[safe-keeper]

That's a lot of words to say absolutely nothing.

CO: So what are your qualifications for writing Words of the Week for Cities Skylines II?
Potential hiree: I've been a career politician, and I have published many academic papers!
CO: When can you start?

 

[KyoLo the major]

Please please CO, I beg you this Monday please release a wotw with actual positive information, we are dying out here waiting for you! "Help me, you're my only hope"

 

[sys_64738]

The publisher will handle all announcements and therefore there will be no timelines in the communication from us devs. The only thing we can say is that we're working on both the modding support and the Ultimate Edition content. I can assure you that we have not abandoned the game and will keep working on it. So we all need a bit more patience.

Hello Mariina,

I wanted to stay quiet until the announced update for end of March was released, but this statement makes me speak up now, frank and clear:

I am already patient. I am very patient until said update will be released. I will check the results of this update and what comes out of it will conclude, if I'll ever play this game again!

This is my patience. This is all patience I give you for now. If the update delivers well, my patience will go 1up. If not... Well, this will be another story.

Note: If you haven't been the developer who gave us Cities:Skylines 1, you wouldn't even get this much of patience from me at all. So please, never ask for more patience again.

Nonetheless best regards,
sys