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Dev Diary #101 - Saints and Ancestors

Hello there! Another week, another Dev Diary!


This week we are going to take a look at the Saints, their potential Pagan counterparts, and how they will work in Holy Fury.


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After the death of a pious Christian character, there is a chance for the Pope/Patriarch/local bishop to decide to beatify them. This is how they’re shown to be truly pious Christians. There will be an announcement sent out to the dynasty as well as the ones in the realm of the character. A beatified character gets a special trait, and a chance to later on be canonized.


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If they do indeed go on to become Saints, another announcement message will be sent out to all Christians of the same faith, as well as their dynasty members. The character in question will be given a special nickname, a miracle will be associated with him/her (this is mostly for flavour) and they will be given a special bloodline. Note, any Christian with a religious head can become canonized, not only Catholics.


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The Saint will have their burial site made public, usually in their capital or another nearby province in the form of a Province Modifier. This gives a permanent benefit for whoever holds the Burial Site, as well as some new flavor events that might happen. Any church holdings in the province will be able to create a small shrine to the local Saint. As well, if any raiders were to drop by the province, they might loot and ruin the burial site for some extra gold and prestige.


Saints & Ancestors 05.png


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A new icon and menu have been added to the religion screen for Christians, where they can check all the Saints that have been created for their faith throughout the game. We figured it would be a handy way of keeping track of everything.


Saints & Ancestors 07.png
Saints & Ancestors 08.png



For those enjoying pilgrimages and traveling, we have added a new option and event chain to travel to a Saint’s burial site. It will find 4 relevant burial sites of Saints created throughout the game. If there isn’t 4 existing in the game yet, there will be up to 3 placeholders filling those spots. Hopefully it will be an interesting change of pace from the regular pilgrimages.


Saints & Ancestors 09.png
Saints & Ancestors 10.png


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If the Catholics are led by a particularly terrible Pope, you might even see the cases of “Impious Saints” as we call them. In the worst case scenarios, this can end up with all of Catholicism embroiled in a massive war, fighting for the piety of the Holy See. The impious Saint in question will get a Bloodline as well, but it doesn’t quite bring as many benefits as most other bloodlines do.


Saints & Ancestors 13.png
Saints & Ancestors 14.png


For those of you who don’t care particularly much about Catholics, or Christians in general, we have added a new Reformation doctrine where one can take on the benefits of Saints into your pagan faith. Instead of caring about such silly things as “Piety”, “Humbleness” or other supposed positive traits, the Venerated Ancestors will be based on things your religion cares about. So if you reform your religion to be a warlike one, one is more likely to become a Venerated Ancestor if you do things that are warlike.


Saints & Ancestors 15.png



For those of you preferring to lead religions yourself, you will occasionally be given the choice of people the religion will venerate as a worthy ancestor. The dynasty of the character in question will, of course, be very appreciative of their family member being venerated as an Ancestor.

Saints & Ancestors 16.png



For the characters receiving that honor, there is a whole slew of new special bloodlines attached to them, as well some special nicknames.


Hopefully you enjoyed this little peek into the upcoming feature for CK2, and we are excited to hear your thoughts on it. Until next time!
 
3 questions

1) Is it possible to filter for bloodlines when searching for a spouse? Is it more difficult to marry a famous bloodline? Do they get trimmed by disease just like normal courtiers?

2) Do requirements scale with title? Getting the piety is easier as emperor than a count. Also is it scaled to make saints rare?

3) Do other religions also get the burial site province bonus? Say Sunni conquer Tuscany, would they receive the bonus of a catholic saints burial site?

Yes, I know I was trying to be smart and get more than 3 questions in there. :)
 
The character in question will be given a special nickname, a miracle will be associated with him/her (this is mostly for flavour) and they will be given a special bloodline.

Mostly for flavor, eh? Interesting.

Also, I wonder what will happen if you go on a pilgrimage to an ancestral saint's burial place. Do you get extra positive effects because it's a reminder of how saintly your family is? Or do you get extra negative effects because, really, just going on a quick walk to the local graveyard is hardly a 'pilgrimage'?
 
I'm consistently blown away by Holy Fury, finally actual differences between wicked and pious Popes, thank you. Any more variations due to a Pope's traits and personality?
New pope buttons/actions: Excommunication, Divorce, Coronation?, Claim, Money. Correct?
I would appreciate a small description of the saint in their burial site tooltip if possible, rather than only listing the modifiers.
Coronations next week?
 
Would a homosexual saint spark the same outrage as a cannibal saint would?

Also, I'm sorry, but at this point, I think only 2 doctrines will simply NOT DO in case of a pagan reformation. Someone please show me how to mod it so that I can pick at least 4 doctrines, because again, 2 is simply not going to be enough.
 
While I'm glad to see attention put on this aspect of medieval life. Not the biggest fan of the various event texts I see. Canonization was more bottom up, with Rome recognizing an existing cult, not imposed suddenly according to Pope's whims.

The texts in the first two screenshots are just odd, like a bad Google Translate. I hope they will be edited before release. Like, "considered a true Christian"? "declared as a Christian"? Just weird phrasing. And comma splice at the end of the second one.
 
HF is looking quite amazing.. Very well done ( I assume one can collect an unlimited amount of bloodlines ?. )
it is getting better and better.. I can not wait for its release now !.
 
So, I noticed that the christian saint bloodline received a bonus which increases county conversion time. You also said that pagan ancestors would be determined by the ideals of the reformed religion. Will the bonuses of pagan ancestors also be determined by the ideals of the reformed religion? Could a pagan ancestor bloodline get the county conversion time bonus if the religion reformed and proselytizing was picked?
 
Great! This adds so much flavour to Religion and especially adds reason for one to play a pious life.
What About heads of societies do they get a Chance to gain a blood line, I.e. some thing like that the family has better odds in beeing accepted/succesfull in X society?
Would Love to see a satanistic bloodline, oh btw are their hidden bloodlines which only the affected can See?
Also looking forward to cannonize People as religious head and give them blood lines and then marry them into my family to stack them. ;)
 
For those of you preferring to lead religions yourself, you will occasionally be given the choice of people the religion will venerate as a worthy ancestor. The dynasty of the character in question will, of course, be very appreciative of their family member being venerated as an Ancestor.

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I assume that our own dynasty members will still have a chance even when we are the religious head?

Also this does beg the question will this not be available for pagans that choose no religious head, or will they simply be picked differently?
 
Any Christian Religion with a Religious Head can have Saints. Any Christian Religion with the exception of the Waldensians can have Beatified characters.
Do eg. Bogomilism can get in HF any new flavour/mechanism?
 
@Snow Crystal

If we vassalise the Pope and get him to start cannonizing ppl what's the cool down?

It's event based, not decision based. Meaning you cannot force him to start canonizing people.

I assume that our own dynasty members will still have a chance even when we are the religious head?

Also this does beg the question will this not be available for pagans that choose no religious head, or will they simply be picked differently?

Pagans who do not have a religious head, will not be able to venerate ancestors, no.
 
I don't know if you (developers) mind but I want to share with you my feelings on this and the previous DLCs.

I am happily surprised by this new DLC: it is incredibly rich of meaningful content and it seems very different from the latest shoddy products.
I had high hopes for “Monks and Mystics” but unfortunately I find it very disappointing: the new societies were shallow and repetitive (with monks obsessed by roses), some event chains were not polished (for example the trips to collect ingredients during wars; instead in “Way of life” the event chains, as the seduction one, were rightly interrupted during war...), the secret religion mechanics were not working right or giving unexpected and not realistic results, and there were far too many serious bugs (I gave up playing for many months after I lost a couple of characters because of the devil curse abuse (don't remember the correct name) even if they weren't devil worshipers).

Then I didn't even buy “Jade dragon” (even if I have all the others DLC) partially because I was so frustrated with “Monk and Mystics” but mainly for other two reasons: 1. I was not interested in the new content; 2. I didn't find some new mechanics realistic (for example gifts from the Chinese emperor, “bought” with grace, materializing immediately along the silk road instead of appearing many months later) and historic credibility is probably what I like most in Crusader Kings 2...
As result of my disappointment I gave up playing this game.

However this new DLC seems incredibly good: I like a lot ALL the new content and also the sheer volume of it (especially compared to the previous anorexic ones).
Surely I will buy the new DLC when available (please take your time to publish this product with as few bugs as possible!) and I am eager to play King Crusader again.
 
Will the impious pope/saint mechanic effect anti pope's claims on Rome in anyway?

Also if the pope becomes vassalised to an emperor tier title how will this be effected by the impious pope war? Does all of Christendom essentially declare war on the pope's liege?