West Africans impossible to win as/reform

[Agnitio Ex Mach]

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The Sunnis inevitably annihilated the Shiites north of me via invasion. Apparently the Sunnis didn't get the same "ignore Mali" script the Shiites did. I had to ragequit; I was facing-off 15-20k doomstacks with 2k tops on my part. Please, either nerf the Muslims or buff the West Africans significantly. This is game breaking. Anyone actually manage to get the West Africans off their feet?

 

[Wilkey]

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either nerf the Muslims or buff the West Africans significantly. This is game breaking.

Have you tried the king of Nubia yet?

 

[Agnitio Ex Mach]

Have you tried the king of Nubia yet?

Well unfortunately he's kinda doomed to fail. 2 provinces sandwiched between two giant powers. In all, and I mean all of my games either the Muslims take him or the Ethiopians do.

In this case, it's different. I control the entirety of de-jure Mali, no small feat within itself, only to have my dreams for a reformed West African to get crushed by lack of balance. It's literally an entire section of the new DLC rendered null.

Also, the Ibadis need a buff. They never survive, in spite of taking the role as a barrier against Sunni domination.

 

[Chef Boyardee]

Expanding beyond Mali generally requires you to play a part in internal Mauritanian politics. Assassinate heirs and lieges, sow dissent, take advantage of rebelling vassals. You can't take Mauritania head on so encourage it to fracture.

 

[Wilkey]

Well my point is that it shouldn't be easy to play as everyone in CK2, personally I am glad that the game has several starting points with greatly varying difficulty and play style. Every character can't be easy and Mali just drew the short straw by being packed away behind a large Muslim power.

Yes, its a challenge to expand with Mali and you can watch decades fly by with nothing happening, but that's appealing to some players and so its nice that those players have a place to play the more slow-paced style.

You can always mod in the balance you want, if it really bothers you.

 

[hajutze]

Andalusia invading Mauritania is pretty much 99% sure. Just get your chancellor to increase relations with the sultan of Andalusia and pick the scraps out of the civil wars.
Being Mali, no matter what you do you'll always have a stronger neighbour:
- You took over Mauritania ? Say hello to Andalusia and Africa
- You took them both down ? Say hello to the Franks, Egypt and/or Arabs

Just lay low, kiss ***es around you and pick the counties whenever you can.

Another option (IF Andalusia somehow doesnt invade Mauritania) is to become vassal of Mauritania, fight them to make it elective AND fight again to take the king title BEFORE the sultan dies (after that it reverts pack to agnastic open/turkish or w/e)

 

[Spartanlemur]

Like in real history, some things are just out of your hands. Zoroastrian revival requires reloads, as it is near impossible to do otherwise. Likewise, you'll need to save your game every year so you can take two steps back when required and ask "what can I do to avoid annihilation when it comes for me in two years time? Is there someone I can kill or befriend to stop this from happening?".
Obviously reloading every time your heir doesn't get the genius trait is gamey, but reloading every now and again after being game-overed is perfectly acceptable.

 

[PAnZuRiEL]

Wait, what? You were unreformed West African Pagan, and so were all your lands, right?

The home province defensive bonuses and the obscene levels of attrition should have easily won your war for you. What were you even doing?

 

[MutantPenguin]

Wait, what? You were unreformed West African Pagan, and so were all your lands, right?

The home province defensive bonuses and the obscene levels of attrition should have easily won your war for you. What were you even doing?

They should have done, but West Arican Paganism is bugged and doesn't get the attrition bonus...

 

[Dark3lf]

Like in real history, some things are just out of your hands. Zoroastrian revival requires reloads, as it is near impossible to do otherwise. Likewise, you'll need to save your game every year so you can take two steps back when required and ask "what can I do to avoid annihilation when it comes for me in two years time? Is there someone I can kill or befriend to stop this from happening?".
Obviously reloading every time your heir doesn't get the genius trait is gamey, but reloading every now and again after being game-overed is perfectly acceptable.

Try playing without saved and load, it is more satisfying. Zoroastrian definitely doesn't need reload at all, only need bit luck in beginning (success after 3 start). Basically most duke/king playable without save/load. Never try Mali at 867, but so fari found the hardest is Ethiopia area.

 

[Agnitio Ex Mach]

Andalusia invading Mauritania is pretty much 99% sure. Just get your chancellor to increase relations with the sultan of Andalusia and pick the scraps out of the civil wars.
Being Mali, no matter what you do you'll always have a stronger neighbour:
- You took over Mauritania ? Say hello to Andalusia and Africa
- You took them both down ? Say hello to the Franks, Egypt and/or Arabs

Just lay low, kiss ***es around you and pick the counties whenever you can.

Another option (IF Andalusia somehow doesnt invade Mauritania) is to become vassal of Mauritania, fight them to make it elective AND fight again to take the king title BEFORE the sultan dies (after that it reverts pack to agnastic open/turkish or w/e)

Well guys, I was kissing ass, but the AI invaded anyways.

 

[Groogy]

They are supposed to be difficult to play, just like Zoroastrians are hard (I haven't seen any Zoroastrians going Erhmgerd nerf er buff!). I have seen players manage playing West African successfully, it was no small achievement though.

Don't know if this is the original intent since they were added after I started working here, but I would imagine that is the purpose.

 

[User29]

They are supposed to be difficult to play, just like Zoroastrians are hard (I haven't seen any Zoroastrians going Erhmgerd nerf er buff!). I have seen players manage playing West African successfully, it was no small achievement though.

Don't know if this is the original intent since they were added after I started working here, but I would imagine that is the purpose.

West Africa at least needs the attrition buff, the Maghreb invaded, but after this time period.

 

[Talq]

West Africa at least needs the attrition buff, the Maghreb invaded, but after this time period.

Would have been intentional. They have no other enemies - letting them sit in an impregnable fortress picking off provinces whenever the power above them is distracted (read: at war with anybody else) wouldn't exactly be a challenge.

The Sunnis inevitably annihilated the Shiites north of me via invasion. Apparently the Sunnis didn't get the same "ignore Mali" script the Shiites did. I had to ragequit; I was facing-off 15-20k doomstacks with 2k tops on my part. Please, either nerf the Muslims or buff the West Africans significantly. This is game breaking. Anyone actually manage to get the West Africans off their feet?

From memory it takes over a month to cross any of the West African provinces past the Atlas mountains. In some cases far more. Yes, you will be playing 'chase the doomstack'. But attrition will take out much of it over time.

If you have 2k in 915 (40 years after game start) you also have... not been making much effort at improving your demense (or your vassals hate you. Maybe both).

 

[BurningEGO]

What are you complaining about? In my current game, i started as an Hellenistic Roman, in Napoli, and i am owning half the map already (1050).

And mind you, everyone could Holy War the crap outa of me, while i had to conquer EVERYTHING 1 province at a time... lol (already did about 20 or so wars vs the Byzantines for instance...).

 

[beinbear]

Would have been intentional. They have no other enemies - letting them sit in an impregnable fortress picking off provinces whenever the power above them is distracted (read: at war with anybody else) wouldn't exactly be a challenge.

The Norse are hardly a challenge...

 

[nestorius]

There are several countries in EU3 and HOI3 and Vicky 2 that are basically impossible to play. If anything I find that the Pagans are too powerful, Mali is meant to go Muslim the majority of the time. The Norse in particular should be weakend imo as currently it is far too easy for them to conquare the British Isles and reform.

 

[Sukramo]

They are supposed to be difficult to play, just like Zoroastrians are hard (I haven't seen any Zoroastrians going Erhmgerd nerf er buff!). I have seen players manage playing West African successfully, it was no small achievement though.

Don't know if this is the original intent since they were added after I started working here, but I would imagine that is the purpose.

Zorastrians have the option blobbing north to expand their power while West africans are trapped behind a really powerful Muslim nation in the north. You have no mercs avalible so its mostly luck that these Muslims go into a civil war and you can start taking provinces.

 

[unmerged(749574)]

well of course it s hard to win as the West Africans.They were enslaved,not because they were powerful,on the contrary !

 

[Atalvyr]

I'm playing Mali now and its basically a game of much smaller goals that you are used to going for. Just getting enough of Mauretania to get sea access (to enable raiding) is my first priority, though that of course means I am going to have to take some de jure territory from them. Sucks if its true their pagan attrition bonus is borked, since basically the only thing they have to protect them is attrition (and their awesome bonus for fighting on home turf: +80% morale/defence? Yes please!)