Assisting Lieges in war

[Killmaster Kaiz]

I've noticed playing as Bohemia that whenever the Emperor declares war, he'll raise my levies from me to fight. I had assumed that meant I was also helping him fight the war, however when it finished my message center told me that the Kaiser had won a war and I had not helped. Just wondering, what do I have to do to help out in a war effort? If my liege declares, am I automatically at war also or do I have to declare war on the same target? Also, if someone declares a war on my liege and he has to fight defensively, do I have to do the same thing?

 

[Diet of Worms]

I didn't realise the game kept track of whether you had helped. That's really cool, were there any modifiers given?

You are at war when your liege is at war (see the icons along the bottom of the screen), although you don't have anything personally at stake. I assume by helping, it means you raise troops on your own under your own command and fight with them, in addition to any levies your liege takes from you.

 

[wright1331]

I was wondering this also, because when I look at the diplomatic map mode there isn't anyone who is red (at war with). However, the battle icon was still up in the lower right hand side.

 

[RJL18]

I thought you couldnt just march to war to help him. Not sure your armies will be able to invade unless you declare war. COuld be mistaken though...

 

[Diet of Worms]

I thought you couldnt just march to war to help him. Not sure your armies will be able to invade unless you declare war. COuld be mistaken though...

I'm pretty sure that isn't the case. I've played a fair bit as a vassal, and whenever my liege is at war I see his enemy's troops in red. I've had my own provinces besieged and occupied, and I've joined in a couple of times with independence wars to try to stop the kingdom falling apart and have been able to fight them just fine.

Edit: mostly civil wars, which I guess might be different. But I have seen some hostile muslims wandering around that I'm pretty sure I didn't declare war on...

 

[Killmaster Kaiz]

@Diet of Worms: Evidently the game does keep track, however I haven't noticed any modifiers that go along with not helping. I have no basis for this, but I think there's benefits to helping in a war, but no penalties if you don't. Technically since the liege raises levies from MY reserve, I suppose that's still a fulfilment of feudal obligations, but maybe since I don't personally gather my troops and take them to battle with my liege, I'm not actually aiding in the war effort. I saw in another thread earlier that someone helped fight a war and then received a duchy from the Emperor. No idea if those two events were related, but if they are then that's a big incentive to assist.

One of the wars was a holy war against Pomerania, which the HRE won, and some land won from that war transfered into the ownership of the Emperor, who was made Duke of whatever land that was (can't remember). I don't recall seeing any other German lords assisting in the war, so I'm assuming that the territory won defaulted into the demense of the Emperor?

@wright: I also notice the war icon in the bottom right of the screen, and it's the source of my confusion. I assumed first that the icon wouldn't show up unless I'm at war, so I assumed if it's there then I AM at war. However, like you said, I checked the diplomatic map and nothing was red. However, if I hover my mouse over an enemy unit icon, the leader's name appears in red, so...? I don't know, I'm clueless.

Guess I'll have to study the manual and see if there's anything in there.

 

[Diet of Worms]

The way I think it works: a war declaration puts the principles, and all lower vassals on either side, in a state of war with each other. However your feudal obligation to help is covered by the portion of your troops that can be raised by your liege. The way the claim system works, you are pretty much a bystander and can simply ignore the war - unless you happen to move your own troops through a big stack of your liege's enemy's forces, of course, which I've done...

As far as I can see, this is what the AI does when its liege is at war (ie nothing). I think that it doesn't raise its own troops even when the war in question is over claims on its own demesne, which seems a bit weird. But I suppose that since unraised levies are simply added to the garrison that that sort of makes sense, since they will make sieges a lot harder.

 

[praguepride]

I think you help the liege out in two ways.

1) Is that a certain % of your levies are automatically at the HRE disposal (hence why the desmne of a king can raise ~1.5k in troops while a duke in HRE ony has ~750 and a count (under a duke) has only ~300's

2) Raising your own levies and marching out along side.

So I think (emphasis THINK, not KNOW) is that when HRE declares a war, you're supposed to raise the other 1/2 of your levies and march them out as well.

 

[Zarco]

I think you help the liege out in two ways.

1) Is that a certain % of your levies are automatically at the HRE disposal (hence why the desmne of a king can raise ~1.5k in troops while a duke in HRE ony has ~750 and a count (under a duke) has only ~300's

2) Raising your own levies and marching out along side.

So I think (emphasis THINK, not KNOW) is that when HRE declares a war, you're supposed to raise the other 1/2 of your levies and march them out as well.

But that leaves you undefended! Specially if you border arabs/pagans.

 

[Sir Garnet]

I think you help the liege out in two ways.

1) Is that a certain % of your levies are automatically at the HRE disposal (hence why the desmne of a king can raise ~1.5k in troops while a duke in HRE ony has ~750 and a count (under a duke) has only ~300's

2) Raising your own levies and marching out along side.

So I think (emphasis THINK, not KNOW) is that when HRE declares a war, you're supposed to raise the other 1/2 of your levies and march them out as well.

So the hypothesis is that (a) raising your own troops and (b) fighting the liege's enemies is better for relations than just having the liege borrow your army.

A related question is what happens if you already raised all or part of your levies yourself. Better to march to war yourself or just dismiss them and let your liege raise them? Or is your liege raising only a small number sufficient for feudal obligation?