As you see I followed your advice.However much I would like to see a new update, do not feel obliged to make one, and under no circumstances are you allowed (yes, allowed) to make one at any other time, than at your leisure.
Sorry, I sort of felt if I am to keep on going with this, only one update on a Pope with such stats: 3-3-3. :angry:That being said, I would prefer to see a pope lasting twenty years split into two updates, so that his deeds may be fully described in all their glory or horror, as the case may be.
Sadly, there's been very little animosity between the two.The strong Ottomans could be an opportunity... if you could get Austria to fight them in a series of wars it would deal with two annoyances with one stone
Thanks for the praise. To a large extent this aar is a homage to the excellent job your Dei Gratia is.This AAR is well worth reading! I'm only beginning it now, but it looks very promising.
I used it as you'll see if you carry on reading. It costs stability!I wrote in a decision for the Papal States that allows a human player to automatically seize control of the Papacy. You have to re-enact the decision every time a new pope is elected, but doing this will allow you to see the decisions that go into the Catholic Church - you will get to decide church policy, judge ecclesiastical law, call crusades, and more.
I don't think so. Truth is, as I did enact this decision at the crucial time, I got to decide how to go about the threat of the Reformation though. As for excomunications, I did excommunicate France, and it had a very hard time, but frankly there were so much more factors to tear the le Blob apart... (My excommunication of Sweden did not have such a dramatic effect.) There seems to have been a crusade thing as well. But I'm positive I did not call one. Now I think the Emperor's engagement might be due to Helius's OE-Empire SRI stuff.It's a bit game-breaking in some ways, though - it lets you decide the fate of the church in a way that historically would have been impossible.
Interesting to know. I might have messed up things here, as for a pretty long time I acted as the Papal Controler, either through 'Take Control of the Church' decision, or through becoming one 'naturally', or through getting no-conclave Popes (at which instance the PC doesn't change, a bug?)Also, since you asked, the difference between the pious, secular and corrupt popes is mostly trivial to the Papal States, but critical to events in Christian Europe.
A bug, but one that would be quite hard to fix. It doesn't really cause any problems, either, except for flavour, so I've left it. Call me lazy.gabor said:Interesting to know. I might have messed up things here, as for a pretty long time I acted as the Papal Controler, either through 'Take Control of the Church' decision, or through becoming one 'naturally', or through getting no-conclave Popes (at which instance the PC doesn't change, a bug?)
No, that's intentional - it's how the Papal States got Avignon when you start in 1453. I could do something about it, but I had a hard time finding any information about Avignon - I'm not sure how France felt about it, or what steps they took to get it back, or how things might have been different had France not been going through the Hundred Years War at the time. Would they have asked for it back? Demanded it? Bought it back? Declared war to get it back? Would they have risked excommunication? Was it simply a lease that they could stop renewing at any time? I can't find out. I guess I could make it up...I do have some info:If you follow, you'll see I had a schism as well. And here I have a question. It did get resolved somehow diplomatically/peacefully and as a result I got the former anti-Pope's province for free (I mean it became part of the Papal States). No event to give it back to the former owner fired, is that WAD? (Or should I have waited a bit longer?)
Wikipedia said:Successive French rulers sought to annex the region to France. It was invaded by French troops in 1663, 1668 and 1768–74 during disputes between the Crown and the Church. It was also subjected to trade and customs restrictions during the reigns of Louis XIV and Louis XV.
Papal control persisted until 1791, when an unauthorized plebiscite was held and the inhabitants voted for annexation by France. It was subsequently incorporated into the Vaucluse département. The papacy did not, however, recognise this formally until 1814.
Rome agreed on rather mild terms with the Sultan. Foe turned friend, one of the peace conditions actually was the promise that Muslim privateers, using the Papal States’ ports would disrupt the enemy supply lanes and share the plunder with the Holy See. Never was Clemens IX averse to a chance of making some easy money.
That's a good point; I didn't foresee the possibility that a country allied to the Papal States naturally could become Papal Sponsor. I should be able to fix that, although it's unfortunately not as simple a fix as I'd like, but I ought to be able to do it in an hour or two.gabor said:I do believe that allies obtained through diplomacy and not-Papal-Controller-event-triggered ones shouldn’t desert the Pope.
If you're ever curious about this, you can check your game log - you ought to find several events which describe where the council took place. However, you should also get a tiny relations bonus with the country hosting the council when you hear about it - my way of telling you where to look. If you want to search even closer, the province gets a modifier icon during the council.gabor said:I know all this is part of Dei Gratia by dharper, still I might have missed some parts of the puzzle here, such as where the council took place , many countries got sth like ‘we’ll attend’ event in the period before the council started; I had little to say here as it is the Papal Controller, France in this case, who decides on the options
That's one of my event chains. You were quite lucky; often, countries refuse crusades, and even when they do join in they often do not go to war directly. Having the Holy Roman Emperor do so? Priceless. The crusade goal is a Christian province occupied by infidels, and the crusade hub is where any crusaders go by event.gabor said:was really startled; although the game sees it as a war of aggression I checked the save and it seems I must have called a crusade, there’s a ‘crusade_called’ thing under my TAG, there are also other lines in the save like: ‘crusade_goal’, ‘crusade_hub’ (that's Moravian Serbia prov both), ‘crusade_support/sponsor/refused’; I suspect it is Helius’s or dharpers ‘hidden’ crusade, we shall see how this will play out)
Yes, a number of Papal Sponsor events can influence the innovation/tradition slider of the Papal States or give them the reform friction modifier for a while. You might also notice events like the Dead Hand of the Church which give the Papal States extra cash. On the one hand, I didn't want to spam the player with events notifying them of these changes, but on the other hand, I don't want them to be mystified like you were. I'll see if I can't do something about it, but no promises.gabor said:innovation – tradition slider is now at 0, strange, don’t know why, pbly Church Council affected it, I didn’t touch it
Not much! Getting so many means that you probably had a corrupt pope in office - they tend to get a lot more corruption events, while pious popes get few if any. The Papal States gets a number of modifiers and events giving them free money and prestige, but they also get a number of events costing money and missionaries. It all balances out. In early games, before I did this, I discovered that the Papal States was spending its extra money conquering Italy, pretty consistently. Thus events like papal relations - which are based on historical events.gabor said:I did get three or four ‘papal relations’ with him, which seems a lot for such a short pontificate; what do they do btw?
Why do you think the decision is imbalanced? I'm curious.gabor said:Orthodox uprising is an interesting concept (and effect of a – a bit imbalanced - religious decision I believe) but the revolters’ forces are a joke: 1k!
This event is really just foreshadowing. It's based on the real-life case of Erasmus, who did exactly what it says in the event. Many historians believe that his well-meaning work gave new life to demands for church reform and made it possible for people like Luther or Zwingli to reach the masses with their criticisms. Erasmus lived long enough to see the Reformation happen; he remained Catholic until the day he died, and wrote scathing criticisms of Reformation theology. In game, it serves the purpose of being the last requirement for the Reformation event chain to begin. Basically, as soon as you see the New Translation event pop up, you should start planning for the Reformation, one way or the other, and perhaps saving up money and missionaries for conversion or wars during this turbulent period. Or just microwave some popcorn and watch the fun.gabor said:- ‘New translation’ is another Dei Gratia event with unknown to me effects
Hard to say! Church councils are almost invariably good for the church, but not always for the pope. During councils you have the chance to fight church corruption (including the 'papal relations' event!) and, if the Reformation has begun, the chance to begin the Counter-Reformation. Doing this sooner rather than later can help slow down the Reformation, and countries that really want councils can get upset at delays.gabor said:I didn’t call the council as it costs stability and gives penalties, will I regret later?
Nope, not random, although it does seem that way at times. There are seven automatic excommunicable offenses - most of them pretty obvious, like converting to Protestantism or annexing Roma - and a number of ways the Papal Sponsor can excommunicate enemies or rivals (I once got excommunicated in my game despite being a faithful Catholic, simply because my state was growing too large, too fast).gabor said:As for excommunications, what I love here is that it's (maybe also) up to me or the Papal Controller and not completely random, which I sort of feared it was.
gabor said:gabor: Whether truly swayed by Philipp I’s chivalry and integrity, or seeing it as a last resort to save his empire, Mustafa I converted to Christianity.
Sorry, that's not one of mine! It looks like a vanilla event new to Heir to the Throne.gabor said:gabor: (it’s an interesting event - you can always come across sth new in MM!, what triggers it I dunno)
Large states are unlikely to convert their state religion right away - they recognize the costs involved with having many heretic provinces and choose to wait more often. The spread of Reformation always starts slow - the system is set up like a virus, where is spreads outwards from the source. It can take a while before you start to see countries joining in, but then - as you've seen - it begins to snowball. Very historical in that respect.gabor said:initially the spread of reformation was a trifle, I think there are two reasons for it, the minority system slows it down and the larger the country, the more reluctant it seems to adopt Protestantism as its new religion
I totally missed that; thanks for clarifying. That's a lucky turn of events - be careful, though. The social forces at work in England may still result in the population embracing the Reformation, and without a strong hand, the country could still fall into heresy.gabor said:England did turn Catholic due to the 'Apostasy' event. (I must have written it poorly) So there's still hope.
...Václav V’s diplomatic blunder, he’s a 3DIP 5ADM 3MIL ruler, imagine him and my current Pope the pair of them shaping Europe!))
Yes, a vanilla one. I like it, but it's unmoddable. It makes sense - you wouldn't want the Ottoman Empire to control the papacy, for example, yet there are games in which they occupy dozens of Catholic provinces. And, in cases like that, those bishops would be less inclined to play political games and more interested in the church. In theory, at least.gabor said:is it some king of mechanism that when a country turns Protestant/Reformed its cardinals support the Papal States?
It unlocks a number of events and decisions which can help the Catholics fight back against Protestantism. Among other things - I _really_ need to advertise this - you now have access to province decisions to send missionaries to neighbouring countries. You also get access to Jesuit events which can convert Protestant and Reformed provinces for free. In theory, a state force-converted to Catholicism is more likely to remain Catholic while the Counter-Reformation is in effect.gabor said:Counter-reformation starts, I never really knew what it meant in gameplay terms
Not exactly intentional, but I don't mind this happening. It can only happen in cases of extremely pious nations with a variety of national ideas and decisions or advisors, and it's hardly unrealistic to assume that you have donations made by faithful worshippers interested in converting heretics and heathens.gabor said:One more thing: a couple of times it happened the cost of sending a missionary was a minus one as a result it earned me a ducat or two!
Not a lot I can do about that, I don't think - but it might be possible to code something into it. I missed where the bastions were - London for one, and where for the other?gabor said:the Holy War thing is part of Dei Gratia, imo it could do with some refining, especially when one of the bastions happens to be in an inaccessible province
A bug, in this case. It's meant to only appear for tribal or nomadic states which are in the process of civilizing. I'm not sure how it happened (or how Ak Koyunlu became an empire) - sometimes the game is a little buggy in this respect.gabor said:also what is Transitional Principality?
It can only fire for countries with colonies of the state religion and homeland provinces that are heretical. Essentially, it moves a heresy from Europe to the New World, and is based on English and French history.gabor said:‘Heretics Emigrate’ thing – it’s the first time I’ve seen it