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The Presidents: 1836-1936 - An Interactive US AAR

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((That was one abnormally quick update, well here is my belated inaguaral))

My Fellow Americans, I Salute and Thank You you. You have shown great maturity in choosing the rationality of the American Conservatives over the false promises of the Democrats and the Kangaroo courts of the federalists. You have also shown great maturity in not rejecting me out of hand due to the actions of my father, thier disputable morality aside. Let us rejoice in our nations god-given prosperity, and continue to develop our economy without excess involvement in foreign affairs. Me and my administration will stand together to build an America more representative of its people through decentralized government, the free market, and a fair judiciary. This I promise. Let us strive together for a greater United States our nation, under God.
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I will be running for the ACP Nomination only a president with experience in all branches of government can bring us together to solve the current economic debacle. The only ACP candidate with those qualifications is myself. While I continue to support government non-intervention in the affairs of buisness I would approve, should I be re-nominated, increased unemployment subsidies to assist those people who are unable to help themselves get through untill more jobs become availible. This action would help the common man without putting more burdening regulations on buisness when they least need it. To pay for this I reccomend a very modest cutting of the Army Budget and perhaps the disbandment of some excess regiments should the need arise. I remain a supporter of Free Trade, Lassiaz Faire economics, Religious Freedom, Limited Citizenship, and despite the proposed cuts remain Pro-Military.
 
Projekt 919 said:
((That was one abnormally quick update, well here is my belated inaguaral))



I will be running for the ACP Nomination only a president with experience in all branches of government can bring us together to solve the current economic debacle. The only ACP candidate with those qualifications is myself. While I continue to support government non-intervention in the affairs of buisness I would approve, should I be re-nominated, increased unemployment subsidies to assist those people who are unable to help themselves get through untill more jobs become availible. This action would help the common man without putting more burdening regulations on buisness when they least need it. To pay for this I reccomend a very modest cutting of the Army Budget and perhaps the disbandment of some excess regiments should the need arise. I remain a supporter of Free Trade, Lassiaz Faire economics, Religious Freedom, Limited Citizenship, and despite the proposed cuts remain Pro-Military.
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Extra unemployment insurance is not what the working-men want or need, Mr. Davis. If you want to fix the problem, then create a solution, employment! I propose the creation of public works programs to employ the working-men of this nation and simultaneously develop it's industry and infrastructure. We shall connect the vastness of the United States with a network of roads and rail which will make us the envy of the world. This action will simultaneously allow for increased efficiency and lower costs for businesses across our great land. Don't sit around timidly, the capitalists certainly didn't when they gambled away the livelihoods of all the working-men in this country! We must act!
 
blindgoose said:
Extra unemployment insurance is not what the working-men want or need, Mr. Davis. If you want to fix the problem, then create a solution, employment! I propose the creation of public works programs to employ the working-men of this nation and simultaneously develop it's industry and infrastructure. We shall connect the vastness of the United States with a network of roads and rail which will make us the envy of the world. This action will simultaneously allow for increased efficiency and lower costs for businesses across our great land. Don't sit around timidly, the capitalists certainly didn't when they gambled away the livelihoods of all the working-men in this country! We must act!
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And how will you pay for such vast programs Fisherman Joe?
 
So, Mr. Hayden, you propose stealing from one man to give to another? Government does not produce, it does not create; it only steals! Your solution will be a failure, on multiple levels. You could more effectively aid the people by giving them their money back! These government programmes will not work! You will make the American people poorer, and you will push this country over the edge into full blown socialism! Davis has proven to be a poor president, but you would be a disaster!

I now formally endorse Vice-President Garrett in his run for president!
 
"I may be old, but I am not dead. It seems my dream has come to a realization, not in the way I originally thought it would. I hoped for a free world, a world where Marxism, where Vinogradism flourished freely. I have been an advocate for violent revolution for the last twenty years, and as I turn fifty four, none of this changes. Yet, it brings joy to my heart, to see that the new generation embrace some of the ideals I have put forward over the year. Socialism is not stealing from the rich and giving to the poor. It is the demand for it. The Capitalists and Aristocrats do not give up money for the worker, they just make more. That is why I take from the wealthy. That is why we can't trust the wealthy to be fair, to be free. I will continue on in my methods, just as my American Marxist-Vinogradist party has for the last twenty years, but I commend you Mr. Hayden. You have brought socialism to a new generation, just as I thought we were a dying breed. I thank you comrade."

- Col. Eric J. Vandrove, founder of Marxism-Vinogradism, Revolutionary, Humanist.
 
Mr. Davis, I apologize for my humble origins. not all of us can come from such a storied and distinguished family as yours. I intend to do exactly as Mr. Jarvis says, "steal" from the robber barons to fix the problem they created. Our economy needs demand in real production, I intend to provide that. It is certainly a much better plan than telling the good working-men of this country to wait it out! You are aware that the poor serfs over which you so benevolently rule, my might noble lord, can not afford to weather this crisis. This crisis will mean starvation and homelessness for millions. Where are you Christian morals my mighty southern gentleman warrior? Did not Jesus excoriate the Rabbis for doing business in the temple? Did he not say that it is better to give all of your possessions so that you may be unburdened and more easily enter the Kingdom of Heaven? Did he not tell us that the poor working-people are the most righteous and are first amongst God's children? I am advocating mere Christian morality! If you take issue with my policy positions, with my advocacy for the poor and working-class, then take it up with the Lord himself! I am doing his work, and all those who support the emancipation of the working-class do his work knowingly and righteously! The apostles held all in common, and they were closer to God for it. I intend only to follow their example, to look after the poorest among us and to create a righteous commonwealth upon Earth's great and glorious surface, which all of God's children hold in common by His decree! If you disagree with my policy, take it up with the working-man and his Bible, for he can read it, he has had it preached to him his whole life, and now the working-people intend to follow the word of Christ Jesus himself. The working-men can recite you all the passages, and you shall be humbled by their organization and their righteousness. At the ballot box, they will vote the way their Christian morals tell them too, and that is for the support and emancipation of the poor.
 
I shall not even give merit to that nonsense, Mr. Vandrove! Freedom and Marxism in the same sentence, with neither subverting the other: preposterous!

Perhaps I should close my businesses, Mr. Hayden, if I am not entitled to the money I've earned! I've payed my employees well, and I have been rewarded for my own hard work, business acumen, and determination. Should we undermine those values? Should we place government on such a pedestal to be the great job creator? The great regulator?
 
Riccardo93 said:
I shall not even give merit to that nonsense, Mr. Vandrove! Freedom and Marxism in the same sentence, with neither subverting the other: preposterous!

Perhaps I should close my businesses, Mr. Hayden, if I am not entitled to the money I've earned! I've payed my employees well, and I have been rewarded for my own hard work, business acumen, and determination. Should we undermine those values? Should we place government on such a pedestal to be the great job creator? The great regulator?
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No, we should make it the great arbitrator. The judge and jury to render verdict upon the flagrant sins of your class! For if you have not in your heart any room for a bit extra tax to help prevent mass starvation and homelessness then I can not bear to be in your company. The poor people can not afford to merely wait for the capitalists to stop quivering in their boots and start investing. I intend to fix this problem, and I intend to do so by employing the people of this country and building it up, greater and stronger than it was before! There can be no complacency, we need action, the working masses need action, and if you refuse to act you willingly sentence them to misery, starvation, and homelessness!

((On a related note. I read this and just sorta jumped into this groove. I'd make a damn good preacher of the liberation theology variety. :D ))
 
I do pay extra, sir! I pay in charities! I pay in volunteer works! I pay in foundations to help those poor people you 'care' so much about! I do not trust the government to handle my money properly (and I don't know why anyone would), nor do I expect to see any progress made in eradicating poverty, providing security, or bringing wealth. Government will create only stagnation, only mediocrity! I love a free market, with all it's flaws! Your authoritarian ideals, this great governmental 'arbiter,' is ultimately more tyrannical, more classist, and more of a failure than even feudalism!

I have a right to what I earn, and the government has no right to make me surrender it, no matter how good the cause!
 
Riccardo93 said:
I do pay extra, sir! I pay in charities! I pay in volunteer works! I pay in foundations to help those poor people you 'care' so much about! I do not trust the government to handle my money properly (and I don't know why anyone would), nor do I expect to see any progress made in eradicating poverty, providing security, or bringing wealth. Government will create only stagnation, only mediocrity! I love a free market, with all it's flaws! Your authoritarian ideals, this great governmental 'arbiter,' is ultimately more tyrannical, more classist, and more of a failure than even feudalism!

I have a right to what I earn, and the government has no right to make me surrender it, no matter how good the cause!
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My friend, you are lost. Is not industry more efficient and more capable as it grows and develops? Does it not make sense that your "charity" combined with the "charity" of others and directed in a specific fashion might be more effective than if separate and all over the place? Beyond this, we are not talking about mere charity. Charity is pity cloaked in the condescension of the wealthy. I am talking about putting people to work, about building a stronger and more unified nation. The working-men of this country don't merely want your pity, they want to build and work, it is what makes us unique as humans, the urge to innovate, create, and build. You would hold these millions of men back from working, from contributing to society. Unemployment subsidies, or doing nothing as others propose, will not fix this crisis, but building the infrastructural capital of this nation, by developing our industry and economy to be more integrated, we will become an economic power unrivaled in the history of man and more developed and advanced than any other on earth! Your classical dogmas hold us back. They are preventing this vision of growth, and instead condemning us collectively to the misery of poverty.
 
Does not bureaucracy create more bureaucracy? Government cannot be efficient, and we have seen it time and time again; the market has proven its adaptability, its desire to grow and succeed, even under the weight of more government, increasing red tape, and less room to expand. Government jobs come at the expense of the free market and the people who work in the private sector. Your government programmes are nothing more than frail, petty attempts of charity, with the vast majority of money being spent on a failed bureaucracy or for more government power. If the government allowed the market to correct itself, we would see those many millions with jobs, better paid than your government programmes would provide. A capitalist can as easily create more infrastructure, with the added benefit of not being on the public's bankroll!

Let me ask you this, Mr. Hayden: if the government has a 'right' to my money (which connotes slavery to the government, but I will discuss that later), does the government have a right to a poor man's money (his livelihood and his life.)?
 
Riccardo93 said:
Does not bureaucracy create more bureaucracy? Government cannot be efficient, and we have seen it time and time again; the market has proven its adaptability, its desire to grow and succeed, even under the weight of more government, increasing red tape, and less room to expand. Government jobs come at the expense of the free market and the people who work in the private sector. Your government programmes are nothing more than frail, petty attempts of charity, with the vast majority of money being spent on a failed bureaucracy or for more government power. If the government allowed the market to correct itself, we would see those many millions with jobs, better paid than your government programmes would provide. A capitalist can as easily create more infrastructure, with the added benefit of not being on the public's bankroll!

Let me ask you this, Mr. Hayden: if the government has a 'right' to my money (which connotes slavery to the government, but I will discuss that later), does the government have a right to a poor man's money (his livelihood and his life.)?
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The Government does not have any rights, the working-class do. And yes, all of your "profit" is unpaid labor to the working-men of this country, so yes, they have a right to some of it. If they elect a government to enact their rights, than it shall be pursued. This is not bureaucracy for bureaucracy's sake, and we can not speak in absolutes about the role of government or bureaucracy. Bureaucracy certainly serves a role when run correctly, it builds efficiency. If bureaucracy was an absolute evil, then business would cease to function and the financial markets which caused this mess would not have existed in the first place, for certainly all of them are characterized by some form of bureaucracy and must have some in order to be effective. You say the government is absolutely incapable of creating an efficient bureaucracy, of running any economic development, yet the government is run by men, and in many cases businessmen themselves! If the government is absolutely incapable of developing an efficient bureaucracy than business, finance, capitalism itself would not exist in any way shape or form whatsoever! the great bourgeois revolutions would never have occurred because there would have been no development to fight for! Your dogma blinds you!
 
Riccardo93 said:
I do pay extra, sir! I pay in charities! I pay in volunteer works! I pay in foundations to help those poor people you 'care' so much about! I do not trust the government to handle my money properly (and I don't know why anyone would), nor do I expect to see any progress made in eradicating poverty, providing security, or bringing wealth. Government will create only stagnation, only mediocrity! I love a free market, with all it's flaws! Your authoritarian ideals, this great governmental 'arbiter,' is ultimately more tyrannical, more classist, and more of a failure than even feudalism!

I have a right to what I earn, and the government has no right to make me surrender it, no matter how good the cause!
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'Charity is no substitute for justice withheld.' That was said by St.Augustine, in the 5th century A.D.

Your free market is a nothing but robbery of the productive classes. You make claims to being an unalienable right to what is in fact the expropriation of capital from the working classes to you and your class. By allowing you to claim land without having to build upon yourself, the government expropriated it from the men and women actually capable and willing to develop it and as such enslaved them to you. It is by this artificial right, this alienable right, this positive liberty, this entitlement and this alone that you are given ownership of the product of their labor and the power to decide their wages.

Without the capitalist state, to have built your factories you would have had to convinced the workers you needed of your vision in order to help you build the factory, as that would be the only way you could claim it. And I have a feeling that under those circumstances, in an actual free market, they would have not agreed to give you an entitlement to all of their products and give you the power to decide their wages.

That is what you are afraid of: freedom. Of the working class who by the principles of the Enlightenment you are so enthralled with would otherwise own all of your capital, because they are the ones who were able and willing to build it and you were not, having expropriated what they created and you did not.

As a socialist I do not believe in positive liberty - I do not believe that because it is a good and charitable thing to do every person should be entitled to a warm fire and a full belly. No, to believe in socialism is to believe that the means of production belong to the producers and that no man or class is entitled to those means of production beyond their ability to labor upon them.

When those who make are no longer being robbed by men like you, they can decide for themselves whether or not to give charity. Until then, the redistribution of wealth by the workers state is nothing less than the return of stolen property.
 
So, should we dissolve the government; it serve's no purpose then, other to enforce one groups will onto another? The rich will continually 'oppress' the poor, because they have the money; I will continue to 'abuse' the people who I hire, I make a contract with (a contract they can dissolve at any time), in the desire to become successful! Government bureaucracy is never efficient, never limited, because the government creates more power, more reasons for that bureaucracy to expand! Government has no competition! That is why it is a failure in the market! It is monopolistic! It is bureaucratic! It only succeeds because it can through the people's money so many times that it is bound to stick!

Your utterly foolish and unrealistic dogma blinds you! If government has no right to my money, then I should keep however amount I want; if the worker has all the power, will they not rib me blind, making me poor? Then this system continues, until we are all poor and fighting one another!

And on your commentary, Mr. Weaver, are not the people enslaved, indebted to the government then? If government has the power, if not the right, to take money from one man and give to another, if it is entitled to take money for the 'greater good,' is it not a slavemaster?

When men like me are gone, there will be no innovation! And we shall stagnate under government control, under bureaucracy, and under the failure of Marxism!
 
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Riccardo93 said:
So, should we dissolve the government; it serve's no purpose then, other to enforce one groups will onto another? The rich will continually 'oppress' the poor, because they have the money; I will continue to 'abuse' the people who I hire, I make a contract with (a contract they can dissolve at any time), in the desire to become successful! Government bureaucracy is never efficient, never limited, because the government creates more power, more reasons for that bureaucracy to expand! Government has no competition! That is why it is a failure in the market! It is monopolistic! It is bureaucratic! It only succeeds because it can through the people's money so many times that it is bound to stick!

Your utterly foolish and unrealistic dogma blinds you! If government has no right to my money, then I should keep however amount I want; if the worker has all the power, will they not rib me blind, making me poor? Then this system continues, until we are all poor and fighting one another!

And on your commentary, Mr. Weaver, are not the people enslaved, indebted to the government then? If government has the power, if not the right, to take money from one man and give to another, if it is entitled to take money for the 'greater good,' is it not a slavemaster?

When men like me are gone, there will be no innovation!
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No, for the government is not an actor, but the instrument of the class which is best organized to take control of it. We are working to organize the largest class, which is in opposition to yours, that is why you fearmonger, that is why you cling to old and dried up dogmas and that is why, on election day, the working-people will choose Joe Hayden.

((This was fun, but I gotta read a long essay by Tony Cliff for a study group tomorrow, so, bed time.))
 
((Have fun with the essay! I'm so happy my finals are done!))

I oppose you because your system promotes government control; all men are equal, or else! Those who are smarter, will be dumbed down! Those who are faster, will be slowed! Those who are stronger, are weighted down! Your system promotes mediocrity, whilst mine encourages freedom. It may not be perfect, but it is vastly superior to your government bureaucracy, untenable system!
 
I thank Congressman Jarvis for his kind support, and am pleased to see the ACP field such a strong slate of candidates.

I would respond to Mr. Walsh as well. You are prescribing, essentially, economic suicide. You call for an end to the stock market and an end to capitalism, simply on the basis of this unfortunate mess. The economy can be fixed, I say. This patient is not terminal.I would be willing to authorize a temporary increase in unemployment insurance or social security; in fact, I would donate a substantial portion of my own income to cover this, if Congress would not vote me funds.

Also, Mr. Walsh, I do not appreciate being singled out for the so-called "destruction" of our economy. Our economy is so complex that one man, alone, cannot affect it for good or ill.
 
I would gladly donate my own money (if it is mine, that is) in this endeavour, as well, Mr. Garrett!

A boom is followed by a bust; that is basic economics, sir. There is a famous saying, "what goes up, must come down.' and that is true even in the market. To try to ensure the market never goes down is naive, props up inefficiencies, and makes the inevitable crash that much worse!
 
Yes, it was an unusually quick update mostly because, by calling it in the morning, I was motivated and had the time to play and write in the evening. I'm pretty sure it suffered because of the speed.

Either way, by my count we have only one Federal candidate. Seriously, every party that wins by landslide here crashes and burns the next election. The Whigs in 1849, the Republicans in 1877 and now the Federals in 1889. :blink:
 
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