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Tinto Talks #10 - 1st of May 2024

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, the final of four on the economy system for our secret game with the code name “Project Caesar”.

Today we will talk about all the things related to trade, including markets, merchants and trades. This talk is heavy on tooltip screenshots, and a lot of concepts to digest, so I recommend checking it through multiple times.

Markets
Let's start with the markets themselves. These are dynamic and will change through the playthrough, as countries can create new markets and disband their old if they so desire.

Each market has a center in a location, and the owner of that location is in control over that market.

Every location and coastal seazone will belong to the most fitting market, which depends on the market attraction of the market, the distance between the location and the market center, diplomatic factors, and more.

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The Riga market has control over much of the Baltic region in the start..

A market has merchants, who have a power depending on buildings and maritime presence in the market, and a merchant capacity which depends on the infrastructure for trade that country has in that market. The Merchant Power impacts in which order exports from a market are executed, as there is not an endless supply of goods in a market. The Merchant Capacity impacts how much goods the merchants can ship.

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This is the source of the Hanseatic League’s merchant capacity in Riga.



As you can see in the market screenshot, every good has a local price, and a supply vs demand value as well, let's take a look at the beer price in the next tooltip.

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Cheap beer, must be paradise…

Prices change every month towards the Target Price, which depends on the supply and demand of the goods in the market, and the current price stability. Price stability can change through the ages as well.

Supply & Demand
The supply of each good in a market depends on several factors.
  • The output from RGO’s
  • The output from buildings
  • Base Production
  • Burgher Trades

So what is ‘Base Production’? Some goods like clay, lumber, sand and stone are produced in every market, without the need for specific RGO’s, even if an RGO with that raw material can produce much more, and there are buildings that can be built to provide these as well.

Also, your burghers will trade on their own, if they have the capacity for it. They will attempt to address needs within the market, and can trade in a slightly shorter range, thus enriching their estate. There are laws and privileges that impact them, like the “Trade Monopolies” estate privilege that the Hanseatic League has granted in the earlier screenshot, which reduces their own merchant capacity by 25% to increase the capacity of the burghers by 100%

So what about demand? This is primarily from the maintenance, input, and construction of buildings, recruiting and maintaining armies and navies, and the demands of the population, but there are more sources as well.

Of course, trades themselves impact supply and demand as well.

Trade
You can use your merchant capacity in a market to either export a good from that market, or import a good from another market. Of course that market needs to be within your trade range, which is not world-spanning in 1337.

A trade is a variable amount of goods shipped from one market to another market, purchasing it for the local price in the exporting market. The longer the distance between the markets, the more capacity each good will require to ship, and higher the maintenance costs will be.

Trades have an impact on the last land location they are in before leaving the market, and the first one they enter in the importing market, giving boosts in development to them over time. A trade always has to trace a path on the map.

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Our merchant power makes us get the amount of goods we want in Riga.

There are also the Sound Tolls, if you pass through Öresund or the Bosphorus to consider.

Diplomacy and Trade
There are many diplomatic factors that impact the trade and market mechanics of Project Caesar.

First of all, you can “Deny Market Access” to a nation owning a market, which will reduce the attraction of their markets on your locations, but also make anyone with merchants in those markets upset with you.

You can also request and/or offer market access preference making it likelier for a country’s locations to belong in a certain market.

If you dislike paying Sound Tolls, you can always try to ask for exemption for it through diplomacy with the country controlling the strait.

Some countries have isolated themselves completely, so you need to negotiate a specific exception to allow you to export or import from their markets.

There is also the possibility to embargo a country, which would block the merchants from that country to trade in your markets, and also to not be allowed to move through your country. Of course, this a legit casus belli, so use with care.

Other aspects to Trade
Each market can have specific goods banned for export or import, with one common example being that muslim markets will ban import and export of wine, beer and liquor.

We mentioned in an earlier Tinto Talks that Markets will have stockpiles, so that surplus can be stored for a rainy day. There are buildings that will increase the amount that can be stored.

There is also food in the markets, with prices adapting to the supply and demand of food as well.

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Västra Götaland är Sveriges Kornbod!

There are also automation options where you can assign trading completely to the AI. You can also lock some trades so that the AI will not interfere with them.

Stay tuned, next week we’ll be talking about mercenaries, levies and regulars!
 
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What happens if you get embargoed by the market owner of the market you're currently a part of? Will you be able to receive any goods? Do you get an option to change the market for your locations?
 
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That is the thing i want to know more about.
Why is the owner of the location of riga and thus the one with control over it not even in the top 5 of the powerfull merchants in the market of riga.

Either controll of a Market is completely detached from Merchant power and Merchant Capacity, which would seem strange to me.
Or the Owner of the location of Riga is part of the Hanseatic League, which would make sense since there is a Kontor in Riga, and is thus for Trade purposes counted as the Hansa Tag, even if the location owner is a seperate country from the League for purposes outside of trade.
I do t think have a market owner not being a top trader an issue

It can show a declining or failed trading nation who tried to do its own market but failed

Or that's something I would think is common for example in colonies, or India where Portuguese would be top trader but some Indian nation would own the market (and so the Indian could embargo Portuguese if they wish to do so, but couldnt make the trade themselves)
 
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If I understand the screenshot of the Riga market correctly, there are only two entities with actual merchants in that market, Sweden and the Hanseatic League, since no one else on that list has any merchant capacity.
Does this mean that not all countries, and in fact only few countries, have merchants in Project Caesar, or have the other countries just placed their merchants elsewhere or not placed any merchants yet because the screenshot is from firing up the game?
 
If I understand the screenshot of the Riga market correctly, there are only two entities with actual merchants in that market, Sweden and the Hanseatic League, since no one else on that list has any merchant capacity.
Does this mean that not all countries, and in fact only few countries, have merchants in Project Caesar, or have the other countries just placed their merchants elsewhere or not placed any merchants yet because the screenshot is from firing up the game?
Not sure where you're getting that idea from, but Project Caesar doesn't have merchants like EU4.
Merchant Capacity is your capacity to make trades from/to that market and the reason only two tags have any in the Riga market is that only they have buildings that generate merchant capacity in this market.
 
I do t think have a market owner not being a top trader an issue

It can show a declining or failed trading nation who tried to do its own market but failed

Or that's something I would think is common for example in colonies, or India where Portuguese would be top trader but some Indian nation would own the market (and so the Indian could embargo Portuguese if they wish to do so, but couldnt make the trade themselves)
From what johan posted afterwards, it seems that the market owner is just being subsumed by the Hanseatic League tag, since it is confirmed that owning the market location gives merchant capacity, and only sweden and the League have any capacity in that market.
 
Not sure where you're getting that idea from, but Project Caesar doesn't have merchants like EU4.
Merchant Capacity is your capacity to make trades from/to that market and the reason only two tags have any in the Riga market is that only they have buildings that generate merchant capacity in this market.
Of course you're right, I was very much thinking in EU4 terms.
Just making sure I get this right: this still means that, in the screenshot, only Sweden and the Hansa are performing any active trading in the Riga market. Merchant capacity is something that you actively have to build up, and only a few countries actually perform trades. Which is good, because, say, a Cologne market where every one province minor that's part of it imports and exports stuff would probably be a bit of a mess.
 
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Of course you're right, I was very much thinking in EU4 terms.
Just making sure I get this right: this still means that, in the screenshot, only Sweden and the Hansa are performing any active trading in the Riga market. Merchant capacity is something that you actively have to build up, and only a few countries actually perform trades. Which is good, because, say, a Cologne market where every one province minor that's part of it imports and exports stuff would probably be a bit of a mess.
No, there can be other countries importing goods from the Riga market using their merchant capacity in the destination market. Merchant capacity can be used to either export from or import to the market. And technically neither the Hansa nor Sweden are actively trading, because they are not using their capacity.

This is clearly a screenshot from the start of the game, and the starting setup is obviously not finalized at all, so we can't really deduce how easy it will be to get merchant capacity in a market.
 
My CD Team says that their research shows that those numbers are more akin to the 15th century, when Barcelona was in relative decadence, and Valencia in its golden age. In 1337, approximate numbers would be Barcelona about 25-35K, Valencia 20-25K, and Palma around 15-20K inhabitants; for that and other reasons, Barcelona was still the main trading center of the Crown of Aragon. We have a Castilian, a Catalan, an Aragonese, and a Basque on the team, so they have great fun discussing the historical setup for the Iberian Peninsula, and are also glad to receive feedback about it.
Sir, you just need a portuguese to have all of iberia represented on your team. Don't you want one? ;D
 
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Of course you're right, I was very much thinking in EU4 terms.
Just making sure I get this right: this still means that, in the screenshot, only Sweden and the Hansa are performing any active trading in the Riga market. Merchant capacity is something that you actively have to build up, and only a few countries actually perform trades. Which is good, because, say, a Cologne market where every one province minor that's part of it imports and exports stuff would probably be a bit of a mess.

Yes. You can see the source of the merchant capacity for the Hansa. Only Sweden and Hansa seem to be able to export and import in that market. If another country, like say Riga wants to, you can increase your merchant capacity by building trade infrastructure and all the other stuff Johan mentions. I presume most countries unless they are very small OPMs will develop a small amount of merchant capacity as the game progresses to be able to trade and generate profits.

Then Johan also mentions that that is only the state's merchant capacity. It is not very well explained but it seems that your burghers have merchant capacity of their own and can trade themselves, keeping the trade profit to themselves.
 
Thats creating a new market (or you can move it if you own it)
Would that make it a pretty decent idea as Sweden to conquer Riga and then move the market to Stockholm?
 
Market name is just the market location.
So, if other market from the same trade zone gets bigger/more trade power/more development than the town from which the name is derived from, the market changes to that town? I don't remember if this was already asked and or answered, but if so pin the answers pls.
 
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So, if other market from the same trade zone gets bigger/more trade power/more development than the town from which the name is derived from, the market changes to that town? I don't remember if this was already asked and or answered, but if so pin the answers pls.
No, a market at its core is just a single town/city. That location then captures surrounding locations into its market based on its influence (which is displayed as market access in those other locations). Each location 'decides' which market it's in based on which of the surrounding market cities has the most influence in that location.
There are no trade zones.
 
So, if other market from the same trade zone gets bigger/more trade power/more development than the town from which the name is derived from, the market changes to that town? I don't remember if this was already asked and or answered, but if so pin the answers pls.
There is no other market from same trade zone

A market and a trade zone are the same thing in this game
A location can change to which market it belong based of the markets power there

But the markets still exist, at worst with only its capital who has no reason to change market name

Also there is no need to pin dev answers, you can filter by them with the button "Show only dev responses" at the top
 
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