Spruce up Tech Tree

[NotAYakk]

Can we have a tech tree that is roughly half as big?

Right now the tech tree is a pile of single-application nodes. We have a technology called Foo, that lets you build a Foo. And repeat.

Sometimes we have a chain of technologies. These are often Foo1 through Foo5 or similar, sometimes with colourful names, but they are direct upgrades and dependent on each other.

On top of this we have the "tier" system, where you aren't given access to a given tier of tech (by random draw) unless you have enough of the previous tier. Finally, we have the technological weight system, which changes the chance you "draw" a given technology.

What I want is this:
1. Almost every technology needs to do at least 2 things. No more "hyper shields" as a technology; some breakthrough should both improve the shields on space ships *and* have some other impact on our empire. If it is "hyper shields" as a ship component, discovering it should have some non-military impact as well.

2. This also means we not quite double technology costs, as there are half as many to earn. I say not quite, because optimal play already had us skipping a huge chunk of "useless" tech; with less than 2x cost you can keep the "bleeding edge" just as good, because you'll often mix a "good" tech with a "not so good" tech.

3. More tech connections. These should be documented in-game: "Required for X" and "Requires Y". Ie, you can't make Neutronium without Plasma Accelleration.

4. Fewer copy-paste techs. "Oh look, another +5% hab on an identical tech with a higher cost and different name, zzz".

 

[klingonadmiral]

Some ideas for tech consolidation:

• make Strategic Resource Gathering and Strategic Resource Manufacturing a single tech
• merge capital techs with the improved output from capitals tech, with the exception of the highest tier (since there are 2 capital techs and 3 capital output modifier techs)
• merge ship type and starbase techs. Destroyers and Starholds become one tech, Cruisers and Star Fortresses become on tech, Battleships and Star Citadels become one tech
• consolidate the climate-specific blocker removal techs into a single techs. The big -2 district generic blockers can stay separate
• consolidate Alloy and CG building techs

 

[DarkHelmet110985]

Agreed with above. I'd make the first Capital Building Productivity Tech(Improved Production) a prerequisite for Colonial Centralization(which adds Efficiencies of Scale Tech) and then Galactic Administration(which adds Maximized Productivity). Consolidate Wet(Selective Defoliants + Ocean Ecology Management), Dry(Soil Remediation + Subterranean Colonization) and Frozen(Climate Control Network + Xeno-Hydraulic Mastery) into a Climate Blocker Tech respectively. +2 Blocker Techs should remain as is or perhaps merged into an Advanced Blocker Tech that requires at least one of the Climate Blocker Techs to be researched first. Merge +5% Habitability Techs(Atmospheric Filtering + Hostile Environment Adaptation + Foreign Soil Enrichment + Eco-Integration Studies) into Terrestrial Sculpting, Ecological Adaptation and Climate Restoration at 5%, 5% and 10% respectively.

They need to seriously prune/consolidate the Tech Tree that has been bloated from Cosmic Storms and other DLC.

 

[NotAYakk]

Some ideas for tech consolidation:

• make Strategic Resource Gathering and Strategic Resource Manufacturing a single tech
• merge capital techs with the improved output from capitals tech, with the exception of the highest tier (since there are 2 capital techs and 3 capital output modifier techs)
• merge ship type and starbase techs. Destroyers and Starholds become one tech, Cruisers and Star Fortresses become on tech, Battleships and Star Citadels become one tech
• consolidate the climate-specific blocker removal techs into a single techs. The big -2 district generic blockers can stay separate
• consolidate Alloy and CG building techs

I sort of want the two parts of a technology to *NOT* be the same thing.

UV lasers gives +10% consumer goods production
Strategic Resource Gathering (motes) gives +1 research alterntaives
Strategic Resource Gathering (gas) gives Destroyers
Strategic Resource Gathering (crystals) unlocks tachyon sensors

Instead of a tech saying "you learn how to make X", a tech is "you learn this thing about the universe, which unexpectedly gives these benefits".

This reflects how technology in the real world works. Someone messes around with the some bacteria's anti-viral capabilities and we get CRISPR. Improved purity of iron in steel manufacturing means that the pure Fe is used in calibrating a particle accellerator, which unleashes new physics. Someone playing pub games becomes a nuclear physicist, gains tenure, is horrified by nuclear war, so writes a book on mathematical game theory, which is used to found a branch of AI, which in turn learns how to fold proteins better and causes the cure for cancer.

Technologies worth talking about tend to have more than one application, and change civilizations in more than one narrow way. And "X, but better" tends to have road blocks that require very distant advancements to pull off, otherwise the first person who made the X would have included the better.

 

[GOLANX]

• make Strategic Resource Gathering and Strategic Resource Manufacturing a single tech

I disagree with this in particular, the problem with these 2 techs is they are unlocked at the same time, Strategic resource manufacturing should be more of a Late game feature while strategic resource gathering remains in the Early game. this makes strategic resources a more interesting challenge when the player has to use territorial control, or trade/diplomatic skills to get access to resources, inadequate access to a resource may restrict the player's build options, while abundant access to another may cause them to build on it, this creates a dynamic of Strengths and weaknesses that the game doesn't really have right now. ultimately access to resources is the primary purpose behind conquest, and there aren't enough factors pushing that.

I sort of want the two parts of a technology to *NOT* be the same thing.

UV lasers gives +10% consumer goods production
Strategic Resource Gathering (motes) gives +1 research alterntaives
Strategic Resource Gathering (gas) gives Destroyers
Strategic Resource Gathering (crystals) unlocks tachyon sensors

your combining techs randomly which doesn't necessarily follow from their origination much less that you wind up making already powerfeul techs even more powerful which in the end if the devs can't do this with every tech, just creates different problems, nobody ever picks up tech z because tech A is so powerful, which we already have but this can exacerbate the problem.

Instead of a tech saying "you learn how to make X", a tech is "you learn this thing about the universe, which unexpectedly gives these benefits".

I don't disagree with this, this is why i really liked the Breakthrough techs, you would learn a thing about the universe and that would unlock techs on how to apply that knowledge.

This reflects how technology in the real world works. Someone messes around with the some bacteria's anti-viral capabilities and we get CRISPR. Improved purity of iron in steel manufacturing means that the pure Fe is used in calibrating a particle accelerator, which unleashes new physics. Someone playing pub games becomes a nuclear physicist, gains tenure, is horrified by nuclear war, so writes a book on mathematical game theory, which is used to found a branch of AI, which in turn learns how to fold proteins better and causes the cure for cancer.

Technologies worth talking about tend to have more than one application, and change civilizations in more than one narrow way. And "X, but better" tends to have road blocks that require very distant advancements to pull off, otherwise the first person who made the X would have included the better.

just because my Oppenheimer got PTSD from his invention doesn't mean he has already created a cure for the cold, he still has to put in the work to learn how to create that cure, which is to say this idea would better be served through events, possibly traits affecting your research head. the Idea that doing a research may cause inspiration for doing a different tech would be solvable by adding research progress to a random tech.

 

[klingonadmiral]

I disagree with this in particular, the problem with these 2 techs is they are unlocked at the same time, Strategic resource manufacturing should be more of a Late game feature while strategic resource gathering remains in the Early game.

There's not enough strategic resources in the game for that. In my current run I got Mote Harvesting in 2370, without Refineries I would have restarted this run in the 2250s the latest.

or trade/diplomatic skills to get access to resources

You can't trade resources you don't know how to produce.

inadequate access to a resource may restrict the player's build options,

Inadequate access to resources means restart, as long as Alloy Foundries and Labs are gated behind strategic resources.

ultimately access to resources is the primary purpose behind conquest, and there aren't enough factors pushing that.

You can't conquer without having access to strategic resources..

 

[GOLANX]

There's not enough strategic resources in the game for that. In my current run I got Mote Harvesting in 2370, without Refineries I would have restarted this run in the 2250s the latest.

you see this as a Failure i see it as a success. granted there needs to be more support for this to be a feature.

You can't trade resources you don't know how to produce.

you can trade the resources as soon as you get some you can get them from events and enclaves also, you can also buy them from other empires which should be much better than just plugging it into the trade menu which exists as a crutch more than anything.

Inadequate access to resources means restart, as long as Alloy Foundries and Labs are gated behind strategic resources.

You can't conquer without having access to strategic resources..

sounds like you want boring samey games, might as well do away with the different strategic resources and just have one, but i believe the game would be better if the Geography of the map would play a role in how your empire develops rather than just existing as a meaningless chessboard