Sentient, not Sapient

[starchitect]

...this is a bit nitpicky. But the localisation for Sentient combat computers and Pre-Sentient species recently changed from Sentient to Sapient. Why? It was right the first time. Sentient means self-aware, Sapient comes from the Latin word for wise, and since we somewhat pompously decided to call our own species Homo Sapiens, Sapient now also connotes human or human-like. So now we have Sapient computers, wise and human like? Pre-human species? Doesn't make too much sense to me.

/end rant

 

[Fourthspartan56]

Sentience means the ability to perceive or feel things, that does not imply self-awareness. Most if not all living things are sentient, so calling a creature of the cusp of intelligence "pre-sentient" makes little sense.

Sapience refers to higher though processes that involve intelligence and self-awareness, just because it's also in the name of our species does not mean that it intrinsically refers to humans.

So it makes perfect sense if you understand the definitions.

 

[RadioactiveHellion]

Linguistic conventions trying to be accurate relegate 'sapience' to mean "intelligence one would recognize as human-like" whereas 'sentience' is for self-awareness but without the explicitly human-like recognition. Or how it's usually framed: humans vs other animals.

(This post is not intended to validate/invalidate any contention with how we establish the boundaries of human intelligence and other animal intelligence or their potential to be more/less justified as categorical differences)

 

[ZomgK3tchup]

There are no precise definitions of terms like sapience, sentience, consciousness, or even intelligence, largely because of how poorly understood the brain is, but for the average person, sapience can be broadly defined as human-like intelligence while sentience is what other animals have. Most definitions agree that sapience is about judgment-making and the ability to acquire skills and knowledge while sentience is simply an awareness of the world and being able to create subjective but not necessarily judgmental experiences.

Even scientifically, these words are difficult to define because they're connected to other poorly defined words. Namely, sapience is often defined as being intelligent, but we don't even have a concrete definition of intelligence. Same with consciousness; there's still no agreed on definition.

But, like I said, for the average person, sapience being adult human-like mental capabilities and sentience being what most animals are capable of is good enough.

Relevant to Stellaris, we're talking about the distinction between human-like mental capabilities and non-human mental capabilities, so sapience is the term we want.

 

[starchitect]

Hmm, perhaps. I think I just have a hard wired affinity for sentience because I've seen it before. Not just in Stellaris, but generically in scifi. I think I first saw it in a series somewhat relevantly called "Uplift." Apparently the term has evolved. I think I am now fully convinced that pre-sapient makes sense (though I am still a little irked by the anthropocentrism of it, but fair enough.) For combat computers however, Sentient still seems correct. You worry about skynet as soon as skynet starts worrying about skynet, ala it is self aware. But maybe Ill come around eventually. Anyhow, thanks for the linguistic input. I certainly didn't mean to come off as criticizing, the change just made me curious

 

[Fourthspartan56]

Hmm, perhaps. I think I just have a hard wired affinity for sentience because I've seen it before. Not just in Stellaris, but generically in scifi. I think I first saw it in a series somewhat relevantly called "Uplift." Apparently the term has evolved. I think I am now fully convinced that pre-sapient makes sense (though I am still a little irked by the anthropocentrism of it, but fair enough.) For combat computers however, Sentient still seems correct. You worry about skynet as soon as skynet starts worrying about skynet, ala it is self aware. But maybe Ill come around eventually. Anyhow, thanks for the linguistic input. I certainly didn't mean to come off as criticizing, the change just made me curious

It has not evolved, science fiction works often erroneously use sentient to mean intelligent life. Due to the prevalence of the trope Stellaris also used to do it, but the devs eventually corrected it.

 

[terrycloth]

It has not evolved, science fiction works often erroneously use sentient to mean intelligent life. Due to the prevalence of the trope Stellaris also used to do it, but the devs eventually corrected it.

It's not erroneous, it's just animal rights activists pushing their agenda that 'animals have feelings too' combined with peoples' love of 'actually!'.

 

[Fourthspartan56]

It's not erroneous, it's just animal rights activists pushing their agenda that 'animals have feelings too' combined with peoples' love of 'actually!'.

It's absolutely erroneous. Science fiction uses it to mean human level intelligence, the correct word is sapient.

 

[ZomgK3tchup]

Hmm, perhaps. I think I just have a hard wired affinity for sentience because I've seen it before. Not just in Stellaris, but generically in scifi.

My understanding is that science fiction uses 'sentience' because it's a term used by a lot of other science fiction authors. You could probably trace its usage in science fiction all the way back to Mary Shelley. The problem is that psychology has moved onto more nuanced definitions of terms like sapience and sentience, and not being psychologists, science fiction authors never updated their jargon.

 

[starchitect]

It's absolutely erroneous. Science fiction uses it to mean human level intelligence, the correct word is sapient

erroneous is a difficult argument to make in the realms of fiction, particularly when the works have been around for a long time. I'm glad Stellaris is trying to stay current however.

 

[starchitect]

...anyone know what was written in 1887 to spike Sentient? I imagine that will be the source of this whole dilemma

Graph word usage: Sentient, Sapient

 

[starchitect]

...respectfully disagreeing with a question is a tad trollish. just sayin.

 

[Person012345]

...this is a bit nitpicky. But the localisation for Sentient combat computers and Pre-Sentient species recently changed from Sentient to Sapient. Why? It was right the first time. Sentient means self-aware, Sapient comes from the Latin word for wise, and since we somewhat pompously decided to call our own species Homo Sapiens, Sapient now also connotes human or human-like. So now we have Sapient computers, wise and human like? Pre-human species? Doesn't make too much sense to me.

/end rant

Sapient refers to "intelligent" species. You know, with the capacity to craft tools and learn from others and so on. The things that make us, us. Sentient means... well, conscious, essentially. These two words are often mixed around and misused in sci-fi.

 

[ZomgK3tchup]

...anyone know what was written in 1887 to spike Sentient? I imagine that will be the source of this whole dilemma

Graph word usage: Sentient, Sapient

You forgot to check case insensitive. When you do, you get this graph instead.

The answer to your question is probably one for an expert in 19th-century literature since the spike is too early for psychological discourse. Unfortunately, I don't think many of those people are playing Stellaris.

If I had to take a stab in the dark, I'd say it has something to do with social Darwinism, but I have literally no backing on this other than my tangential knowledge of the history of psychology.

 

[starchitect]

You forgot to check case insensitive. When you do, you get this graph instead

thanks for the catch. With this version its harder to place blame squarely on one time/author, but usually that is the way things go.

 

[Badesumofu]

...respectfully disagreeing with a question is a tad trollish. just sayin.

Not it's not. Questions can and almost always do contain implied statements. It's a common rhetorical device to smuggle your premise into a question and then respond to all criticisms with 'but I'm just asking the question'.

 

[XXibcb]

these two words also have confused me for long.
thanks, this thread is teaching me a lot and threads like this are the true parts making the community an interesting place. that's what we call good discussion and fun

 

[starchitect]

Not it's not. Questions can and almost always do contain implied statements. It's a common rhetorical device to smuggle your premise into a question and then respond to all criticisms with 'but I'm just asking the question

fair point in general. I honestly was not trying to smuggle anything in this specific question however:

...anyone know what was written in 1887 to spike Sentient? I imagine that will be the source of this whole dilemma

Graph word usage: Sentient, Sapient

Anyhow, like @XXibcb , Ive learned from this thread and very much consider that a win. Stubbornly holding on to my Sentient AI just because my scifi priors are too hard wired. But maybe thanks to Stellaris, that won't be the case for long.

 

[eon47]

I only learned about the proper definitions of sapience and sentience when I took intro to biological anthropology. It's a common misunderstanding.

 

[semaphore]

According to the online Oxford Dictionary,

sapient ADJECTIVE 1.1 (chiefly in science fiction) intelligent.
sentient ADJECTIVE Able to perceive or feel things.

"Pre-sentient" didn't make sense because those species are supposed to be capable of feeling, e.g. like dogs or cats; they're just not intelligent enough to develop civilisations. Pre-sapient is more correct.

Likewise, combat computers are supposed to be intelligent, not just "able to perceive or feel things". We don't need a computer to see that a missile is heading to our ship, we need a computer to respond intelligently to the threat.