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GiotisFilopanos

Recruit
May 11, 2023
5
21
Scouts are probably the most underrated unit in the game. Everyone knows they are important for vision, but did you know that you can easily win the game on brutal difficulty with any settings by just spamming them? In fact, the fastest and easiest win I've had thus far was doing exactly that. The viability of this strategy is subject to change if any nerfs come in the future, but in the current state of the game I think scouts are secretly overpowered.

Race Setup:

Race: Doesn't matter (pick something that looks cool on spiders)

Body Trait: Spider Mounts

Mind Trait: Overwhelm Tactics

Culture: Feudal (best), Barbarian, Dark, Industrious



Society Traits:

For Feudal: Shadow Walkers and either Mana Addicts or Ritual Cannibals

For Barbarian: Shadow Walkers and Prolific Swarmers

For Dark: Prolific Swarmers and Mana Addicts

For Industrious: Shadow Walkers and Prolific Swarmers

Leader: Champion or Mage King work; I prefer Champion though

Leader Weapon: Bow, Orb or Sword&Shield (need to be able to use Spider Mount)

Starting Tome: Tome of the Horde



Strategy:



This strategy revolves around exploiting Spider Mounts and their ridiculously damaging Web Ability. Since scout units automatically get Spider Mounts with this trait, this turns your weak scout units into lethal combatants. So lethal in fact that they outclass everything in Tier 1 and even many Tier 2 units. For this reason I seek to maximize the strength/efficiency of all scout units and swarm the map with them.

Every society gains different benefits from their scouts and they also have different affinities, which in turn changes the priority for which affinities I need to be getting points in from Turn 1 in order to unlock powerful empire abilities. Everyone tends to pick up Shadow Walkers and Prolific Swarmers unless you are Feudal or Dark, which doesn't pick these up for reasons I'll discuss.

Feudal societies get 25% less unit upkeep on their scouts, which makes selecting the Prolific Swarmers trait less efficient since you can only lower a units upkeep by 50% and the Impressment skill in the chaos tree gives you -30% unit upkeep cost, meaning there is about 5% waste already. Nevertheless, Feudal is the best culture for this strategy in my opinion because they get the Stand Together trait which makes their scouts deal 20% extra damage with all their abilities, even Web! Since they don't pick up Prolific Swarmers this opens them up to get something else to buff their scouts even further. Mana Addicts gives their scouts access to lifesteal and ritual cannibals serves a similar purpose without needing the mana consumption, both of which makes their scouts more durable in battle. Mana Addicts has the added benefit of granting a Tier 2 support unit at turn 1 which can help with early battles while you build up your swarm.

Barbarian societies seemingly don't get anything for their scouts, but they still work very well because Barbarian scouts can settle outposts! A very overlooked ability. This gives them a unique advantage of developing their economy and control of the map much faster than other cultures can. Additionally, though their scouts may not hold up in combat as well as the Feudal societies can, Barbarians get access to the Fury archer unit at tier 2 which also ride spider mounts! When playing Barbarians I tend to transition away from scouts in the midgame into Furies but the scouts remain very crucial to this strategy because they can settle outposts, leaving the heroes to focus on war and conquest.

Dark societies are the only society I do not take Shadow Walkers with and that is because their scouts innately have camouflage on many tiles as their unique trait. Additionally, Dark already has 2 Shadow affinity so you don't really need more to unlock the important empire skills. With Dark societies I always opt for Mana addicts because it gives them a powerful Tier 2 battlemage at turn 1 which helps a lot with stacking weakness on the enemy in early battles and still gives all their scouts the lifesteal ability as the game goes on.

Industrious societies may not seem like they get much from this strategy but you'd be wrong. For one thing their scouts are innately tankier than the other societies, making the society itself actually buff the scouts directly in combat just like feudal societies do. In addition, all their scouts have access to prospecting which makes swarming the map with scouts even more efficient because they can quickly get lots of free gold and production from those scouts, allowing them to essentially pay for themselves.

As for tome selection as the game progresses, I tend to focus on accumulating Minor Racial Transformations that buff my scouts since most unit enchantments don't affect scouts. Notable mentions are Spawnkin, Animal Kinship, Astral Blood, Vessels of Chaos, Scion of Flame, Earth Kin, Steel Skin, Gold Touched. For Major Racial Transformation I always go for Gaia's Chosen.

Depending on whether I'm going for Magic Victory or not I'll try to rush tier 5 tomes and so I won't take any lower tier tomes, but if I'm not going for Magic Victory then I do go for lower tier tomes for the Minor Racial Transformations.

After that I just go for good combat spells, siege projects and economy enhancing spells and pretty much ignore researching units whenever I can, since all I need is scouts (unless I'm playing Barbarian, then I build some Furies in the midgame).

Anyway, that's why I think scouts are secretly the most underrated unit in the game. This strat is very powerful. Give it a try and tell me what you think!
 
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Good to know. I actually thought about trying a scout build with spiders after a recent game where I got a spider mount for my hero early on.

I guess that web skill will be nerfed sooner or later.

As a potential extension to that strategy, you can get the tome if beasts and build the animal sanctuary province improvement that allows you to buy animals in that city. So you could add some other spiders that also have web but have melee skills rather than ranged.
 
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Yes, my first game was with feudal (goblin) spider mounts. It was glorious. Also I thought 'yeah, this needs to be nerfed'. But mainly it was glorious. Went around with my leader (also on a spider mount of course) and a bunch of scouts, beating high risk battles pretty handily as long as I wasn't clumsy with my maneuvering.
 
Even without spider mounts scouts are actually surprisingly good. I've had several times when one of my scouts has been jumped by a single tier 3 battle mage and won the fight, by spamming healing roots. Although the AI being bad with combat casting is obviously a factor here.
 
I think the area effect also messes with the AI range calculation; the AI tries to stay out of archery range, but the webs will still hit them. If you have the scouts nicely lined up with stand together you can hit several units with several webs in one turn, killing most of them before they can fire a shot, even powerful units.
 
Not sure why high culture is not on the list but it's a valid strategy with them too. I think Awaken damage applies to Web as well beating other culture's damage buffs.
 
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I don’t think this is necessarily an issue with scouts so much as webs. In AOW3 webbing was already a strong ability. Despite being limited spiders or hero mounts, single target, doing no damage and having to be adjacent to the target.
 
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Webs are strong because Lithyl NightWEAVER weaves them. And she is on the game's cover. And she is actually the mighty [redacted].
Thus, the overpowerness of the webs is totally justified. :p
 
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Right now I can't get over the title of this post being a paradox.

If it's true that "scouts are secretly overpowered", then it's not true, because now we all know about it, so it's not a secret anymore, so it's false.

But if I'm convinced that it's false, that means I don't believe it. And if I don't believe it, but they actually are overpowered, then I'm not aware of the truth, which becomes a secret truth, so it's true.
 
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Right now I can't get over the title of this post being a paradox.

If it's true that "scouts are secretly overpowered", then it's not true, because now we all know about it, so it's not a secret anymore, so it's false.

But if I'm convinced that it's false, that means I don't believe it. And if I don't believe it, but they actually are overpowered, then I'm not aware of the truth, which becomes a secret truth, so it's true.
Fitting for the Paradox forum XD
 
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It kinds sounds like it's not the Scouts that are secretly good, it's spiders. Scouts just give you a way to make cheap spiders.
It's the combo together frankly. Without scouts the spider trait isn't really worth taking except on Barbarians. The reason being that T3 units is just too far in the game to make a big enough impact to justify skipping all the bonuses you could take that help you start to snowball at Turn 1. Spider Scouts however let you make use of the trait early though, while also being able to use it at T3 later too. I'll admit that the Web ability does alot of the heavy lifting here, but really scouts are great units anyway; vision is powerful. Revealing the map is powerful for lots of strategies. What this does is take a unit that is pure utility and give it actual combat potency at the most important part of the game; the early game. Scouts need Spiders to be op, but I'd argue Spiders in their current form wouldn't be op without scouts either.
 
one of the premade wizards in the story missions actually uses a similar build. Barbarian culture with spider mounts and tome of beasts. Looks really cool. They picked green skinned goblins and with the minor animal kinship transformton their furies look awesome on the spider mounts. I don' think the Ai is smart enough (or programmed) to use the scouts as a real combat unit in that build, though.
 
Anyone know offhand if Seeker Arrows and Awakened Seeking Missiles would add +range to an ability like web?

I actually haven't been blown away by webbing in AoW4 because it costs a full turn and only has a 4 range. Meaning that the enemy has to get into a very specific range where they are far enough that immobilization is helpful, but close enough to be webbed. Oftentimes the enemy will stop outside the web range and then charge in to meet my troops, and I don't get a good web opportunity, since the spider can't move and web in the same turn. Whether it's effective for me seems to depend a bit on the randomness of the battle.

In hindsight, I've been assuming that immobilized enemies get an Opportunity Attack, but maybe they don't.

Anyway, an army full of them is obviously very good, so this isn't a complaint to say web is underpowered or anything. Just that it hasn't seemed OP when using it with a single spider in my armies. Obviously the ability to web repeatedly throughout the battle (and the fact that webs now damage enemies) is very effective.