Low manpower, small industry minor nations

[ladner]

For those who play small minor nations what are your goto templates and land doctrine choices?

Seeking opinions. Have experience playing Greece and Estonia, unlocking achievements. Looking to be more ambitious in terms of taking the game further in time.

 

[marcelo r. r.]

Its all depends on your target:

- If fight others minors in early game wars, Superior Firepower provide direct/early S.A. buff's extremely useful for pre 39 wars;
- If you expect stay low industry + low manpower in long term against majors(typical "china scenario") is Mass Assault right branch.
- If you have La Resistance DLC, and want a power snowball, in really use collab governments is the biggest move.
- Mobile Warfare for "Running against time" scenario: personaly i like long-term build up to take a major with resources in full assault, so i go Mobile Warfare(example of scenario: Brazil taking USA, Portugal taking Spain+France), these Portugal/Brazil are countries with high IC potential, but are poor of steel, so you have a scenario "running against of time" because your war against allies will make you lack of steel for a long time.

When playing infantry only due to poor industry, i have a good time with Superior Power or Mass Assault + utilizing Radios on Infantry Template. Radios + Field Hospital + Mass Assault can make your infantry a "infinity pin" machine for enemy troops by reinforcing the atack forever at same time savig the manpower costs of such atacks.

But if you have experience with Greece and Albania you have experience with the most challengeful,, already.

They only are topped by middle east trio: Iran, Iraq and Saudit Arabia, play anyone of these is the "nightmare mode", because:
- low manpower,
- low IC,
- few IC slots.
- no Powerful Direct neighbours to eat up... if you unite iran, saudi arbia and iraq still will be poor.
- direct chance to clash with middle game(1939~1942) most powerful countries: Soviet Union and Germany.
- no chance to early conquest the the closest middle power: Turkey.

(OFF-TOPIC): analyse early land doctrine buffs is a very interesting science.

 

[Findell_HOI]

For those who play small minor nations what are your goto templates and land doctrine choices?

Seeking opinions. Have experience playing Greece and Estonia, unlocking achievements. Looking to be more ambitious in terms of taking the game further in time.

It depends on what you are doing.

You can get by with 5xlight tank 5xmot for some fights and only use like 5-10 divisions.

Sometimes you can use 5xinf for stuff like port garrisions.

You generally dont want to go on the attack with a unit less then 5xinf 1xarty.

 

[ladner]

Greece was interesting, and it took many tries. The unique geography helped, learned the tactic of baiting the AI with a fall back line to get it to pursue and once it was out of entrenchment and had exhausted itself, then launch the counter-attack. Did this numerous times at Eiderne (spelling?) in Thrace. In some respects it is similar to EUIV tactics as Byzantium.

Lately have been playing Estonia, which is much more challenging, in particluar trying to get the Nordic Empire. Somehow I got the achievement Esti ist Scandi (spelling?), but could not unlock the decision to form Nordic Empire, which is now a mini-obsession.

 

[Cavalry]

MA-right is instrumetal. It didn't give "5%" manpower but +100% pre war.

For eye opening defend template, try this: 6 infantry- support: Art, rocket art, AA, horse recon. Rush the rocket art for that.
For offensive, replace 1 infantry with a medium tank.

Consider build a port in the middle , and a supply hub in the left to provide suppy. A hub can provide supply to 3 provinces away.

 

[General Tao]

First I get enough of starting template to fill out the border. For pushing divisions I add a couple of artillery. As I develop I add more infantry brigades to get to ~20 width with the defensive divisions, and then for offence I either start making space marine divisions with SPAA or actual tank divisions.

Land doctrine I find Grand Battleplan to be the easiest doctrine to win against the AI. Strong early defence buffs, and with planning and spies to reduce enemy entrenchment you can win even under red air. Fav doctrine is Mobile Warfare for cool tank divisions.

Bulgaria is a fun minor nation that can become very powerful with lots of ways to get there, if you want something to try next.

 

[ladner]

It depends on what you are doing.

You can get by with 5xlight tank 5xmot for some fights and only use like 5-10 divisions.

Sometimes you can use 5xinf for stuff like port garrisions.

You generally dont want to go on the attack with a unit less then 5xinf 1xarty.

I have been trying to form Nordic Empire as Estonia, and let's just say it's a challenge. If the run goes well conqueror everything but cannot get the focus tree event to start, typically it thinks I don't have all of the "nordic states" so Denmark, Sweden, Norway. The only thing I can think is if somehow Iceland or one of the remote islands is also required.

 

[General Tao]

I bet you forgot Jan Mayen. Everybody forgets that island.

 

[jacekgk]

1. Land doctrines - probably always I choose superior firepower (as the classic says: "because it is superior"). Thanks that You can stuck bonuses to Your infantry and artillery, and probably You won't have enough industry for a while to do something fancy with tanks for example. Other land doctrines: mobile warfare without tanks or motorize infantry is almost pointless, grand battle plan I think is really good, but not my style, mass assault is ok-ish, if You are playing in some really weird places on the earth. There is a really good bonus to recrutable population, but it will take a long, long time, before You get it.

But there is some exception. When I know, that I have to fight in mountainous region (for example - as Paraguay, where taking Bolivia is only one sensible option) I prefer start from taking mountaineer doctrine. It gives a nice bonuses for the special forces and regular infantry, especially for fighting in terrible terrain.

2. Division templates - it depends on country, where fate threw me. For example, Greece. Focus trees from BftB are really slow, not in my taste, so I know, that I can do something in 1939 - I think in april or may there's a little 35 days long window, when Turkey has zero guarantines from anybody. From the start You are not even close to fill all divisions with manpower and equipment, but thanks huge bonuses via focuses and decisions it will change. I was playing Greece lastly and I think, that I didn't change that mutch for the templates. Starting infantry division are pretty decent, so probably I added one artillery battalion for more soft attack.

For countries like Estonia - hmn, situation is little bit different. Baltic states have low manpower and industry, but thanks focus trees You can fix at least the second issue. Focus trees from NSB are faster then BftB, so probably You will be ready for invading Your neighbors in 1938. It this time almost all forget, where they put their guns, so I think adding support artillery to starting template should be enough to win easly.

Other countries - in most of cases, when I'm playing as countries with generic focus trees, I'm created 10 combat width infantry division with artillery support. This is ok-ish and should be enough for early conquer.

 

[ladner]

The low manpower is always an issue.

I've tried a variety of different things. CAS and support artillery made a huge difference, have had mixed success with light tanks.

You learn a lot about game mechanics with a minor.

As Estonia have gone down both the Allied and Axis support paths. Allied tried something novel which was to convert the fighters to CAS. This worked reasonably well. Also found converting one of the cavalry divisions into a hybrid cavalry/light tank division was effective.

Tried the hybrid cav-armor on a greater scale on a different run this wasn't as effective. The war with Latvia can cause a lot of problems.

Beginning to think that when the focus for the anti-soviet divisions completes that some should be coverted/disbanded since there isn't enough equipment to turn all four into a 14/4 . Haven't tried a "Space Marine" variant with light armor recon.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

They only are topped by middle east trio: Iran, Iraq and Saudit Arabia, play anyone of these is the "nightmare mode", because:

iran has healthy manpower compared to the other two.

none of these are as rough as stuff like liberia/tannu tuva/oman, etc which can't civil war dupe factory/dockyard focuses and have much less manpower than even saudi arabia.

For pushing divisions I add a couple of artillery.

this is extremely situational/sometimes objectively detrimental.

on the one hand, adding line artillery outside of grand battleplan often reduces your damage. since you often use gb per this post, you're getting the most mileage out of it.

on the other, it only costs 500 manpower per battalion, unlike infantry costing 1000, so when you're a truly low manpower country, sometimes that's the difference in whether you can cover your front line vs not at first. and it's true that with enough entrenchment stacked, arty can melt attackers.

Beginning to think that when the focus for the anti-soviet divisions completes that some should be coverted/disbanded since there isn't enough equipment to turn all four into a 14/4

why would you use a 14/4? that hasn't been good since before waking the tiger was released.

as a low manpower minor you'll always have issues with it until you puppet a nation with a lot and siphon that manpower out via colonial divisions before annexing them *or* put 2x collab on a region like india or china and then cap them. assuming collab government doesn't just randomly feel like not counting anyway.

generic tree communist can stack symbol of marx + political tree to get 900 weekly. this is 46,800 manpower yearly. certainly not great, but if your core pop is really low (aka 1 million or lower) then it's like getting 20% of core pop every 4 years. you still want to use puppets to get real manpower, but this might help you get to that point.

 

[ladner]

Don't have a good answer regarding 14/4 , I am far from an expert on division templates. The anti-soviet Estonian divisions are 12 INF.

 

[Terracos]

There is still the option to completely abuse the Armor system and create a 6 Inf division with support eng, recon tank, medium flame tank and support arty. This will defend very very well against the AI and is pretty IC efficient in trading IC losses for manpower losses. Add support AA if you can to negate enemy air. The recon tank can either have close support gun for additional SA or a small cannon for piercing (and soft attack). On top of that this division can also attack if necessary. If you somehow can afford the IC you can replace one inf with a medium tank to create a superb offensive division.

You need about 10-11 factories to create such templates: 4 on guns, 2 on support equipment, 1 on AA 1 on ART, 1 on recon tank and 1-2 on flame tank. They only need 4km/h so you can go cheapish on them, but try to maximise armour as much as possible. Do not try to maximise breakthrough, it will never be high enough to do anything, so focus on armour only (and a somewhat decent gun). No need for expensive turrets and modules (besides the armour modules).

 

[TheMeInTeam]

There is still the option to completely abuse the Armor system and create a 6 Inf division with support eng, recon tank, medium flame tank and support arty. This will defend very very well against the AI and is pretty IC efficient in trading IC losses for manpower losses. Add support AA if you can to negate enemy air. The recon tank can either have close support gun for additional SA or a small cannon for piercing (and soft attack). On top of that this division can also attack if necessary. If you somehow can afford the IC you can replace one inf with a medium tank to create a superb offensive division.

You need about 10-11 factories to create such templates: 4 on guns, 2 on support equipment, 1 on AA 1 on ART, 1 on recon tank and 1-2 on flame tank. They only need 4km/h so you can go cheapish on them, but try to maximise armour as much as possible. Do not try to maximise breakthrough, it will never be high enough to do anything, so focus on armour only (and a somewhat decent gun). No need for expensive turrets and modules (besides the armour modules).

the problem with this is that when you're a country that has 0 mic at start, researching and producing two different tank lines uses up 66% of your industry and it's impossible to produce all of guns/arty/support equipment/aa as well.

in fact, even if you start with mic and factory dupe civil war, you still won't have enough stuff from buying alone.

it's simply not an option for truly destitute nations. takes too long to make the divisions, and too long before getting into and winning 1st war. you don't have 10-11 military factories as many of these nations...you have 3-5. the best way to change that is to win wars, and that means winning with some combination of infantry kits, support arty, and maybe some support equipment. which is doable with good enough micro.

saying breakthrough will "never be high enough to do anything" makes no sense. it's a literally false statement; the only time adding breakthrough ever does nothing is when you have *already have enough* to match all incoming attacks.

infantry + support divisions can take you quite far:

Spoiler

 

[mpop]

I would rush a weak nation like The Netherlands at start of the game quickly with 22width infantry division before they can build up their army. I puppet them and us the manpower from indonesia. Then I would go for portugal and enjoy the massive amount of tungsten and trade them for civ boost.

 

[Cavalry]

Don't have a good answer regarding 14/4 , I am far from an expert on division templates. The anti-soviet Estonian divisions are 12 INF.

These is probably outdated template from previous DLC, now you can't go wrong with 6 infantry, as long as there are support Art and AA.
Usuallly, if one found that they have too much manpower but hungry for IC, then they can improve the balance between IC and manpower by adjust templates used. If one are hungry in manpower, then no doctrine is better than Mass Assault-Right or MW-x-R

 

[Terracos]

the problem with this is that when you're a country that has 0 mic at start, researching and producing two different tank lines uses up 66% of your industry and it's impossible to produce all of guns/arty/support equipment/aa as well.

in fact, even if you start with mic and factory dupe civil war, you still won't have enough stuff from buying alone.

it's simply not an option for truly destitute nations. takes too long to make the divisions, and too long before getting into and winning 1st war. you don't have 10-11 military factories as many of these nations...you have 3-5. the best way to change that is to win wars, and that means winning with some combination of infantry kits, support arty, and maybe some support equipment. which is doable with good enough micro.

saying breakthrough will "never be high enough to do anything" makes no sense. it's a literally false statement; the only time adding breakthrough ever does nothing is when you have *already have enough* to match all incoming attacks.

infantry + support divisions can take you quite far:

Spoiler

Yes but thats if you play a really small nation, not a small one. Almost all the small nations have now a new focus tree and can get pretty easy up to 11 factories at some point. I think in Europe there are only a hand full of nations left that can't really pull off 11 Mil until 1938/39.

 

[FalconekL2]

Level 4 forts, grand battleplan and wait till enemy bleeds himself. Works for all eastern european countries. But I roleplay democracy, so I don't invade others unless they attack first.

 

[Cavalry]

I have played a Mongol game and help Soviet won. With an army of 170k men it is too few. Sinkiang have more manpower.