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Xelecrat

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Aug 8, 2022
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Hello all

I won't pretend I am not a little frustrated that the bug I reported weeks ago has not gotten any attention and it made me curious, how long does it typically take for bugs that crash the game to be fixed? Is there hope? Does it depend on how many people encounter the bug?
 
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well, you don't know that it hasn't gotten any attention
 
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Officially it's summer vacation for them right now.

Some of them are still posting, and some of them are doing self-motivated projects about the game, but officially there is no work happening right now.
 
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If it's the untargetable ships bug, probably never. The problem is that reloading the game fixes it so it's impossible to reliably recreate.This bug was
This bug was recently reported with a save file that does consistently reproduce the bug so who knows?

In my case, it is a bug that just straight up crashes the game. I have no idea what the causes are but I uploaded the save file in a bug report a few weeks ago, per instruction from technical support and have so far never gotten a response or indication that anyone is interested. I really want to finish that specific game.
 
Bugs have a chance to be fixed (or introduced) with every major patch and in the few weeks that follow a major patch. 3.4 was in May so the next major patch (after accounting for summer vacations) is highly likely to be in September. They almost never do off-cycle patches for simple bugfixes (e.g. we were told there would be no further 3.4.x patches after 3.4.5 released back in June).
 
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Bugs have a chance to be fixed (or introduced) with every major patch and in the few weeks that follow a major patch. 3.4 was in May so the next major patch (after accounting for summer vacations) is highly likely to be in September. They almost never do off-cycle patches for simple bugfixes (e.g. we were told there would be no further 3.4.x patches after 3.4.5 released back in June).
I reported the bug before the last update, but if bugs are fixed with every patch update and the next one is scheduled for Septemberish then I would be satisfied.
 
Good question, that is all there is to say :)

Bugs... don't really think there is a time frame. Depending on how much game-crashing they are it could go from hours to days to months to years. Also there is to take in consideration that bug fixes only come with patches. So a bug can be "fixed" but since the patch didn't come out yet the bug is still there :(

Best piece of advice, keep asking for it until it's done. There is no time frame, only vain hope :)
 
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Bugs are fixed based on a variety of things

  • How long will it take to fix
  • Will fixing it break something else
  • How game breaking is the bug
etc

And each of those have subsets under them like "Is this bug even replicable" and "Is this bug actually costing us money to the point where we will make more money fixing it".

I work with developers for a living as what's basically glorified Q&A as part of my job. A big part of dealing with devs is making sure your bug report is VERY clear and concise with as little useless fluff and confusing unrelated details as possible, and to make sure the bug is very easily replicable with bullet point steps on what you did (don't lie, they don't care that you were dumb they just need to know what you did).

Don't send a giant wall of text paragraph with no breaks in it describing what you had for breakfast before you launched the game, just say "If you use this army type to invade an ice planet, the game crashes" and then include screen shots of the army, planet, and the game save, and if there's more steps involved than just one or two have it in a numerical or bullet point list

The next step is the devs have to evaluate how much is involved with fixing it and get an okay from the "money man" higher up who pays the bills. Dev hours are extremely valuable and the hottest sought after currency in a company. Many devs make 60-120+ dollars an hour, and companies often value dev time higher than that at hundreds of dollars per dev hour, because the dev could be doing something else that will actually make them money.

So the "Money Man" has to say "Okay is it worth us paying $150 an hour for 30+ hours of work to fix a minor bug barely impacts gameplay and takes the player a 30 second work around to fix? What about instead we have the dev spend those 30+ hours working on making new content for the next DLC instead . . . .

$150 an hour is cheap for what many companies would value dev time at when figuring costs (even if the dev isn't paid the majority of that charge), but if that took 30 hours then that's $4,500 to fix a single bug. The DLC sells for $10 and under on sale, and $20 full price, so even at full price they would need to sell an extra 225 copies of the DLC solely because of the bug fix, just to cover the cost of fixing a random bug. So unless it's a actual massive game breaking issue, it's not going to be high priority

Now that's not to say devs and Paradox in general don't fix bugs that aren't high priority, it's just based on work load and how hard it is to fix. If they can slip it in while it's slow and it's not a gigantic can of worms to fix, they likely will. But during crunch times and times where they are working on big content, they have more important things to focus on than an obscure bug they can barely replicate and that only affects a handful of users

Also including a TLDR; helps a lot

TLDR;

  • Make sure your bug is actually a bug and not user error, and is not just your preference or opinion on how something *should* work
  • Make sure your bug is replicable. If it's not replicable it's almost certainly not getting fixed, full stop
  • Keep your bug report concise and simple
  • Include saves and screenshots
  • Understand that a bug that looks simple probably isn't and can be tied to 2,000 other systems and break everything, so the devs don't want to touch it if it's not a major bug
  • Understand that even a fixable bug still might not be worth it dev time cost wise as well

Also most importantly, the devs are on Summer Vacation and are only just now coming back to work. They had multiple posts about it before they left and explicitly said the last patch was the last one until they got back from summer. The devs are blessed and live in a country that actually cares about the workers, and they have a very nice work enviorment and caring boss etc, so they get well deserved breaks so they don't burn themselves out
 
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Bugs are fixed based on a variety of things

  • How long will it take to fix
  • Will fixing it break something else
  • How game breaking is the bug
etc

And each of those have subsets under them like "Is this bug even replicable" and "Is this bug actually costing us money to the point where we will make more money fixing it".

I work with developers for a living as what's basically glorified Q&A as part of my job. A big part of dealing with devs is making sure your bug report is VERY clear and concise with as little useless fluff and confusing unrelated details as possible, and to make sure the bug is very easily replicable with bullet point steps on what you did (don't lie, they don't care that you were dumb they just need to know what you did).

Don't send a giant wall of text paragraph with no breaks in it describing what you had for breakfast before you launched the game, just say "If you use this army type to invade an ice planet, the game crashes" and then include screen shots of the army, planet, and the game save, and if there's more steps involved than just one or two have it in a numerical or bullet point list

The next step is the devs have to evaluate how much is involved with fixing it and get an okay from the "money man" higher up who pays the bills. Dev hours are extremely valuable and the hottest sought after currency in a company. Many devs make 60-120+ dollars an hour, and companies often value dev time higher than that at hundreds of dollars per dev hour, because the dev could be doing something else that will actually make them money.

So the "Money Man" has to say "Okay is it worth us paying $150 an hour for 30+ hours of work to fix a minor bug barely impacts gameplay and takes the player a 30 second work around to fix? What about instead we have the dev spend those 30+ hours working on making new content for the next DLC instead . . . .

$150 an hour is cheap for what many companies would value dev time at when figuring costs (even if the dev isn't paid the majority of that charge), but if that took 30 hours then that's $4,500 to fix a single bug. The DLC sells for $10 and under on sale, and $20 full price, so even at full price they would need to sell an extra 225 copies of the DLC solely because of the bug fix, just to cover the cost of fixing a random bug. So unless it's a actual massive game breaking issue, it's not going to be high priority

Now that's not to say devs and Paradox in general don't fix bugs that aren't high priority, it's just based on work load and how hard it is to fix. If they can slip it in while it's slow and it's not a gigantic can of worms to fix, they likely will. But during crunch times and times where they are working on big content, they have more important things to focus on than an obscure bug they can barely replicate and that only affects a handful of users

Also including a TLDR; helps a lot

TLDR;

  • Make sure your bug is actually a bug and not user error, and is not just your preference or opinion on how something *should* work
  • Make sure your bug is replicable. If it's not replicable it's almost certainly not getting fixed, full stop
  • Keep your bug report concise and simple
  • Include saves and screenshots
  • Understand that a bug that looks simple probably isn't and can be tied to 2,000 other systems and break everything, so the devs don't want to touch it if it's not a major bug
  • Understand that even a fixable bug still might not be worth it dev time cost wise as well

Also most importantly, the devs are on Summer Vacation and are only just now coming back to work. They had multiple posts about it before they left and explicitly said the last patch was the last one until they got back from summer. The devs are blessed and live in a country that actually cares about the workers, and they have a very nice work enviorment and caring boss etc, so they get well deserved breaks so they don't burn themselves out

Think I should clarify this post is about game-breaking bugs only. This means bugs that either crash the game outright (in my case), freeze the game, or disrupt the mechanics of the game in such a way that the player can no longer use the intended functionality.

Thank you for the detailed answer and yes we all should follow those key points.
 
Think I should clarify this post is about game-breaking bugs only.
game breaking bugs get hotfixed within days.

there's a difference between game-breaking and save-breaking.,
 
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game breaking bugs get hotfixed within days.

there's a difference between game-breaking and save-breaking.,
Oh? What do you mean? My save in this example crashes consistently on the same star date regardless of what I do (the player empire). I don't know what causes it. Would this then be considered a game-breaking or save-breaking bug? So far I have never encountered a crash like this before and my other games seem to progress as normal. If you want more details on the actual bug you are welcome to check out the bug report. We should probably keep this thread to a more general topic though.

Here is a link to my bug and what I mean by game breaking.
Game Crashing Bug
 
Oh? What do you mean? My save in this example crashes consistently on the same star date regardless of what I do (the player empire). I don't know what causes it. Would this then be considered a game-breaking or save-breaking bug? So far I have never encountered a crash like this before and my other games seem to progress as normal. If you want more details on the actual bug you are welcome to check out the bug report. We should probably keep this thread to a more general topic though.

Here is a link to my bug and what I mean by game breaking.
Game Crashing Bug
it doesn't happen to me so it's save-breaking.

no, it's not about me. it's about the playerbase as a whole. it might take months for it to be marked as 'confirmed' and months for a fix to be scheduled and months for it to be released.

or it might not.

it's a piece of string question.
 
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it doesn't happen to me so it's save-breaking.

no, it's not about me. it's about the playerbase as a whole. it might take months for it to be marked as 'confirmed' and months for a fix to be scheduled and months for it to be released.

or it might not.

it's a piece of string question.
But it could happen to anyone depending on what causes it right? I mean I don't understand the circumstances that trigger it but theoretically if another player has those same circumstances they could run into the crash as well. At least that is what Tech Support concluded. But ok got it, depends on how many people encounter the problem and it could therefore be resolved quickly or never.
 
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But it could happen to anyone depending on what causes it right? I mean I don't understand the circumstances that trigger it but theoretically if another player has those same circumstances they could run into the crash as well. At least that is what Tech Support concluded. But ok got it, depends on how many people encounter the problem and it could therefore be resolved quickly or never.
yeah, it's always a good idea to search the subforum before posting cos the more people that report the same bug the better chance they have of pinpointing it.
 
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well, you don't know that it hasn't gotten any attention
Sometimes, not even we know if it has or hasn't gotten any attention, because your issue may have been a secondary issue to another one that's already been fixed.
I couldn't reproduce this issue and I can't find any record of us fixing it either, so I suspect that's what's going on in this case. If the issue can't be reproduced, it generally also doesn't get much of a response and this one didn't reproduce.

Overall though, it depends on when the bug is found. The vast majority of bugs are found during development and fixed before release (this is why open betas often have a much higher bug frequency). If they are found by players right after a release, we may or may not decide to hotfix it depending on quite a few variables (hotfixes come with a lot of overhead and are therefore inefficient and expensive), most of which outlined in @Chuunibyou Imouto excellent post above :)

When it comes to tagging bug reports, not all devs can do it. I can't for example and I think it's because something got funky in an account migration a few years back.
Then there are also quite a few devs who read the forums and use the bug reports, but don't interact, so they are unlikely to tag the post as well.

In regards to the invincible fleet bug. Please link me the report where somebody reproduced it.
I've fixed one trigger for it, but there are certainly more. I have an idea on how to approach the problem at a lower level than hunting each individual case that can trigger it(this may take some time before it lands in release, because it's both time consuming and has a high risk for new bugs), but more information is always good :)
 
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