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Iskulya

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Oh, and the famous ace pilot who (while not a fascist) might plausibly have been willing to join a fascist-aligned faction? Charles Lindbergh.
You must have missed it.

In the focus tree, you can send Lindbergh on a diplomatic trip to Germany. Additionally, it was shown in the stream that for fascist-route America he can be the chief of the airforce. He reduces fuel consumption by fighters and, IIRC, increases air superiority.
 

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I need this for my mod, take my money.
 

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If I were to have a Country Attack bonus against the Dominion of Canada, would that attack bonus also apply to whomever comes to their aid so long as it was on said country's territory?
(edit: Why people are "disagreeing" to a question that seeks clarification is beyond my ability to ascertain. Again, to disagree with a question is kinda dumb)
 
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Telenil

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The problem is that would imply that Athens wasn't democratic.
By modern standards, it really wasn't. If democracy means anything, it is to take the power (as in, the power to choose who rules the country) away from the richest citizens and to give it to the majority, which in practice means those with low-ish to average living conditions.

If you have slaves, then by definition the lowest group doesn't have any right, and what you really have is an aristocracy - though one with an unusually large ruling group. There may be democratic elements, including elections, inside the ruling group, but even a free election doesn't mean the majority rules if only a minority has the right to vote.
 
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Lorehead

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If you have slaves, then by definition the lowest group doesn't have any right, and what you really have is an aristocracy - though one with an unusually large ruling group. There may be democratic elements, including elections, inside the ruling group, but even a free election doesn't mean the majority rules if only a minority has the right to vote.
This was a distinction the Greeks themselves made at the time—and, what’s more, it’s actually kind of relevant to Douglas MacArthur taking over during a Second Civil War.

In 411 BCE, a group of Athenians organized a coup and took over, saying that the Democratic government was losing its wars through incompetence. (Which was true.) They said that they would instead let only 400 citizens vote; later, they promised to expand this to 5,000. They called this an oligarchy, and at the end of the Peloponnesian War, democracy meant the system in place at the start of the war. From a modern perspective, we might say that most of the population didn’t get to vote either way, and indeed this had occurred to them: Aristophanes’ comedy Assembly of Women imagines what might happen if women all voted and took over the government. But, at least to the upper-class Athenian men whose writings have survived, that wasn’t the distinction between democracy, oligarchy and tyranny.

Athenian attitudes toward slavery were complicated. One of Solon’s reforms of the constitution, which by the fourth century BCE were remembered as incredibly wise and just, was to free all Athenians who had been enslaved, outlaw any more families selling themselves into slavery as a condition of a loan, and repurchase and free all Athenian slaves living elsewhere. However, this only applied to slaves of Athenian descent. They were fine with slaves from elsewhere.
 

DerGrößteRitter

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Split between uprooting for nice new content, and down voting for "neo-Confederacy" nonsense....
 

Dlin369

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On the stream today for the constitutionalist side FDR is leading them but the party remains the Republican Party - would it be possible for an event that switches the party name back to the Democrats?
 

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Can you seriously not put the Silver Shirts in power unless you form the dumb CSA meme, or did I miss something in the stream today?
 

hrun

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Can you seriously not put the Silver Shirts in power unless you form the dumb CSA meme, or did I miss something in the stream today?
I would assume you can (not having seen the stream). Based on this dev diary it looks more like there's the option, once allied with the Fascists, to make some Southern/Confederate concessions to improve the support for you new regime. Seems to me you wouldn't need a focus called 'Honour the Confederacy if you were the Confederacy'.

Have they said something else elsewhere? Because I can't see any mention of re-establishing the Confederacy at all in this dev diary.
 

Gorgo Primus

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I did watch the stream. There are a series of decisions you get after "Honor the Confederacy" that lets you raise your awful stability (one of which forces you to move your capital to Richmond for no reason other than the CSA had one there) because going 'fascist' in the tree makes you a Non-Aligned government with 0 Non-Aligned support. You then get a decision you get to put the Silver Shirts in power that changes your name and flag to the CSA.

That doesn't look optional to me, which is why I was asking.
 

Iskulya

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I did watch the stream. There are a series of decisions you get after "Honor the Confederacy" that lets you raise your awful stability (one of which forces you to move your capital to Richmond for no reason other than the CSA had one there) because going 'fascist' in the tree makes you a Non-Aligned government with 0 Non-Aligned support. You then get a decision you get to put the Silver Shirts in power that changes your name and flag to the CSA.

That doesn't look optional to me, which is why I was asking.
Wrong. There was only 0 non-aligned support because they had hired a fascist demagogue advisor, not because it's inevitable. There is also nothing forcing you to take the decisions to become the CSA. Heck, only taking ALL the decisions sets the ruling party to fascist and changes the flag and name. You could just choose to take some, or none at all, and you won't become the CSA.

It'd be nice if there was an alternative, like if you could choose to nix the Confederacy stuff and keep a permanent military Junta with MacArthur or have a reactionary republic led by Lindhberg. I know it's not going to happen, but it would be cool if they did!

Similarly it'd be nice with the 'communist' path if you could stay Democratic and have the ruling party by the Socialist Party of America, maybe led by Norman Thomas. I think both of these possibilities are a lot more plausible and easy to swallow than the Communist Party or Silver Legion taking power.
 

Gorgo Primus

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So how do you get the Silver Shirts in power and a stable stability without any of the CSA decisions then? I didn't see the referendum option or anything else that puts them in power.
 
Last edited:

Reinner

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So how do you get the Silver Shirts in power and a stable stability without any of the CSA decisions then? I didn't see the referendum option or anything else that puts them in power.
Maybe after you win the war you get the decision on who to put in power, kinda like how Germany can decide only after civil war to restore Kaiserreich or Republic.
 

Gorgo Primus

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Maybe, although given that in the stream the war took til ~1941 or something and merged into the general WW2 well before it ended, waiting until the civil war is fully over in that game basically meant "when the game was over" because the civil war can't end until the allies of the defeated side are also defeated. If that proves true most of the time that theoretical decision might as well not even exist.
 

steve213

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I really like the idea of the civil war but the execution was terrible, to say nothing of the mess that was made of the focus tree most of the stuff on the left side of the work with the silver legion tree is stuff that a republican government probably would have done without working with the silver legion (especially privatization of the TVA) all in all this is just another example of Paradox not understanding the pre war situation in the US
 

LiberiusX

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I really like the idea of the civil war but the execution was terrible, to say nothing of the mess that was made of the focus tree most of the stuff on the left side of the work with the silver legion tree is stuff that a republican government probably would have done without working with the silver legion (especially privatization of the TVA) all in all this is just another example of Paradox not understanding the pre war situation in the US
I still haven’t found an explanation as to why Fascists, who were famous for co-opting the private sector to their needs, would release the TVA from government control. Atleast put the word Privatize in quotes to accentuate the superficiality of the act... I.e. “Privatize” the TVA
 

RagingCroppy

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I still haven’t found an explanation as to why Fascists, who were famous for co-opting the private sector to their needs, would release the TVA from government control. Atleast put the word Privatize in quotes to accentuate the superficiality of the act... I.e. “Privatize” the TVA
Or why Charles "drive out the money changers" Coughlin would support a party that is de-regulating the banks.