Event spawned troops - what the hell...?

[mim1983]

Hi, so I strated playing CK 2 after a long time, and so far I've noticed that it is now nearly impossible to conquer any damn petty slavic ruler due to event spawned troops.

Really, who invented this...? I have like 2k well equiped troops (heavy infantry, etc.), but I cannot conquer a ruler with three provinces, as every month he spawns another 2k troops (for free, as I understand). Here is a screenshot - he has already spawned 8k.

And it is not a simple bad luck I guess - I have already lost previous war against another Slavic ruler because he could just constantly spawn thousands of troops.

 

[mim1983]

 

[Aardvark Bellay]

There are two decisions. Raise Tribal army and Raise defensive army.
See http://www.ckiiwiki.com/Decisions#Tribal
He probably used these.

 

[Arsonik]

Hi, so I strated playing CK 2 after a long time, and so far I've noticed that it is now nearly impossible to conquer any damn petty slavic ruler due to event spawned troops.

Really, who invented this...? I have like 2k well equiped troops (heavy infantry, etc.), but I cannot conquer a ruler with three provinces, as every month he spawns another 2k troops (for free, as I understand). Here is a screenshot - he has already spawned 8k.

And it is not a simple bad luck I guess - I have already lost previous war against another Slavic ruler because he could just constantly spawn thousands of troops.

This is unfortunately happens to everyone the first time they attack pagans. They lose utterly in the face of undefeatable odds because they don't understand the mechanics. The lack of a proper tutorial makes this inevitable. Everyone gets to feel like Pagans cheat at least once.

 

[Ciniod]

This is unfortunately happens to everyone the first time they attack pagans. They lose utterly in the face of undefeatable odds because they don't understand the mechanics. The lack of a proper tutorial makes this inevitable. Everyone gets to feel like Pagans cheat at least once.

There should be something that just pops up every time someone tries to make a thread with certain words related to this in it, where it explains that this is just pagans crushing you with pagan mechanics, and only proceed to post if you are talking about something different.

 

[Arsonik]

There should be something that just pops up every time someone tries to make a thread with certain words related to this in it, where it explains that this is just pagans crushing you with pagan mechanics, and only proceed to post if you are talking about something different.

There is, not that it is a big deal. Sometimes people are in a hurry or just don't see it.

 

[Rags17]

1) Make sure they have no current alliances with powerful, non-engaged characters
2) Make sure that their current Piety is less than 250
3) Make sure that their current Prestige is less than 500
4) Hire/use lots of Heavy Infantry or Light Horse troops
5) Profit !

 

[mim1983]

Well, my question is - should it be like that (I understand that this is mechanics, etc.)? Spawning 2K every month / two months does not seems very rational / historical / etc.

 

[JustinianJustice]

Yes, this is a normal mechanic within the game. What I suggest you do is actually play AS a pagan tribal ruler. Check things out, see how it all works, and you will grasp why things happen the way you do. It's through these kinds of mechanics that make pagan/tribal rulers so effective in the early game, although later on in the game if they haven't converted over to a glorious Feudal, they will find that the more modern nations are far superior in military, numbers alone.

Before you do play as a pagan tribal ruler, I do suggest you watch a walkthrough on how to raid so as to give you the gold that you won't earn as quickly as you do when playing feudal. Learning what it means to reform your pagan religion, and how to convert to a feudal system would be a good idea too. And obviously the various CB you get. Just search in YouTube, I'm sure you'll find something! ^^

 

[Toleora]

There should be something that just pops up every time someone tries to make a thread with certain words related to this in it, where it explains that this is just pagans crushing you with pagan mechanics, and only proceed to post if you are talking about something different.

This is a normal new player question, i think very few players got the pagan-prestige mechanic in the first game hours, so wtf is wrong with you, are you annoyed from people asking normal questions about a simple gameplay mechanic?

Everyone of us was a newbie some day and i was very happy when i got help in this forum and it's designed for this purpose, so spend some time outside and get fresh air and don't make your life depend on forum threads.

B2T: pagans can spawn 2,5k troops for 500 prestige, be aware of these.
There is a 2nd decisions for defensive pagans that can spawn troops too, so make sure that in early feudal game you have strong allys/mercenaries or a lot of troops

 

[Admiral_Obvious]

I'm half way through the game (if that's what I can call it, made it to 1k from the start 769). I started off as Lithuania, and had to use the event spawned troops on multiple occasions in order to be able to successfully reform the religion. Then I was able to convert to feudal.

For some reason the AI tends to not upgrade tribal holdings too much, and save up all their prestige to either defend themselves or improve the opinion of tribal vassals.

Is it historical? Probably not. You can consider them gathering people from across the local tribes (considering that tribes are more or less hunter gatherers, not living in "true" structures or communities, when compared to the Feudal societies of the time). Your levy are trained warriors in defense of the tribe, your event spawned troops are the extra men and hunters your people can gather to support the war for a good cause (hence the prestige cost).

 

[Marinaliteyears]

This is unfortunately happens to everyone the first time they attack pagans. They lose utterly in the face of undefeatable odds because they don't understand the mechanics. The lack of a proper tutorial makes this inevitable. Everyone gets to feel like Pagans cheat at least once.

To be fair, I played the Tribals as soon as I could after CM released, so I figured out the easy way how Tribals work. In fact, by this point, I think I play tribals -more- then feudals.

 

[Arsonik]

Well, my question is - should it be like that (I understand that this is mechanics, etc.)? Spawning 2K every month / two months does not seems very rational / historical / etc.

It's very fair and balanced. They can only use prestige for offensive wars, and piety for defensive wars. 500 Prestige = 2500 Men. 250 Piety = 2500 men. These event spawned troops are purely light infantry. Furthermore, they only occupy one flank. This composition can be easily defeated with less forces simply by having mediocre to good commanders and troops in all 3 flanks.

At any rate, just make sure to check the details of these pagans closely before declaring war. I don't think it's unreasonable that you would be expected to learn a bit about your enemy before going off to war. Check his character sheet, look at his prestige/piety and do the math to see how many troops he can mass.

I also have to agree with Justinian, playing as a tribal pagan to learn these mechanics is the quickest way to grasp it. It is also a lot of fun... Even if you only play 2-3 successions until you get bored of it.

Worst case scenario, if you find you declared an unwinnable war just reload your game. Or if it is an ironman game, and too much time has passed to reload, you can simply surrender. It will be a lot better in the long run than depleting your levies and money in an unwinnable war, making you vulnerable from other sovereigns.

 

[Maraxus]

If it's only a 3-tribe nation, lure their 8000 men murder-army in front of one of your castles (possibly one where you did not raise the levies or a vassal castle and wait for them to siege you.

Than flank around with your army and take their tribes in 3 assaults. Tribes have really low fort levels so you can assault with rather few troops compared to castles. Once he is completely taken, he is at -100 war score, even if he has twice your troops on the board.

 

[Ciniod]

This is a normal new player question, i think very few players got the pagan-prestige mechanic in the first game hours, so wtf is wrong with you, are you annoyed from people asking normal questions about a simple gameplay mechanic?

Everyone of us was a newbie some day and i was very happy when i got help in this forum and it's designed for this purpose, so spend some time outside and get fresh air and don't make your life depend on forum threads.

B2T: pagans can spawn 2,5k troops for 500 prestige, be aware of these.
There is a 2nd decisions for defensive pagans that can spawn troops too, so make sure that in early feudal game you have strong allys/mercenaries or a lot of troops

Wow angry much or what. It being a normal new player question makes having a specific pop up or something if certain words pop up during a new thread creation even more reasonable. Why make them wait for human response for a question that is simple to explain, so simple that you could really just give the same link to the wiki that Aardvark gave. Maybe you shouldn't become so hostile so easily to a comment with no hostility present, as far as I'm aware I didn't present any annoyance at this either, just a simple statement.

 

[panionios]

Always check their piety and prestige. Especially piety. They get 2k of very strong warrions for every 200 piety. Prestige is 2.5k (though they are quite weak). Compare that with your armies and then decide whether to attack or not.

If above 600 piety not worth to attack. They are already too old and will die soon and whoever inherits will have no piety at all. Just wait.

On a side note, if christian there is a very high chance they will most likely convert to you religion before you get the 100% warscore. Check if they are zealous, or if their heir is zealous (and thus wait until he inherits). They cannot take the decision to convert if zealous.

 

[VoodooEconomist]

On a side note, if christian there is a very high chance they will most likely convert to you religion before you get the 100% warscore. Check if they are zealous, or if their heir is zealous (and thus wait until he inherits). They cannot take the decision to convert if zealous.

On the other side, if they convert they'll get easier to conquer the regular way. Sure, you lose the Holy War against them, but they lose all Defensive Pagan privileges! So it's a strategy too =)

 

[kviiri]

Well, my question is - should it be like that (I understand that this is mechanics, etc.)? Spawning 2K every month / two months does not seems very rational / historical / etc.

Spawning those troops is so expensive small tribal countries can't do that while trying to upgrade their buildings. It's very limited and balances itself rather well with the steep cost and other penalties of being tribal - namely, poor income. You aren't supposed to be able to just romp your way over the less-civilized frontier lands even if they're lacking in the way of a proper army, but instead wait for a moment of weakness or compensate with overwhelming force or preparation, like with other countries.

 

[KhaineFH]

Also you must remember defensive pagans get a huge bonus in defense when they fight in counties of their religions.
Even with even numbers, you may struggle to beat them because of this bonus.