EUIV - Development Diary - 14th of January 2020

EUIV - Development Diary - 14th of January 2020

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lolada

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Going over the limit has a scaling penalty which at 100% over the limit is:
  • +100% Stability Cost Modifier
  • +50% AE Impact
  • -50% Improve Relations
  • -5% Administrative Efficiency
Taking another look at it. Why do we need to *slow* done player doing wc *more*? There's already AE and coalitions and monarch point and all of tedium and micro of sieging every single province and fort in the world. Not to mention killing 7 million rebel stacks. WC takes lots of time and patience to do, and quite some skill as well. Another extra layer of mostly annoyance on top of this is likely step too far.

If someone wants to speedrun the game on normal - well let them have it, its 0.001% of any game's players.

Now about making world conquest harder - i suppose that was idea in first place, wc should be hard right? Why just not add another layer of difficulty over Very hard - call it Extreme and add these maluses above to that mode only. "Elite players" will go for max challenge anyway so have them crack at it fight whole world at the same time.

-------

Another thing is - player going for WC will anyway trigger world coalition.. like grand sunni coalition. This just makes it faster? It isn't fun nor really interesting. Players are just gaming AI and stuck 500k units on island and blockade with ships.
Improving relations penalty makes these modifiers worth much less. Pentalty to admin efficiency - well.. its a delay.. but again whats the point. We all find to struggle to finish a game of EU4 at all. With less admin eff more people will just give up earlier.
100% stability cost.. its needless and ugly delay - what now, idea is to stop truce breaking completely? No to 15 years waiting -_- Or force players to suffer even more rebels.

I don't see much point to these maluses honestly. I like that they are scaled at least.. but still there's no much point to it. I'd just move it to extreme difficulty and put achievement there or something for those who want to brag.
 

Sete

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I'll have to say that i am disapointed with the Portuguese ideas rework. Sure they are not terrible anymore, but they still make very little sense from either a historical or gameplay point of view.
Lets analyze the new bonuses:
Naval:
sunk_ship_morale_hit_recieved = -0.33
disengagement_chance = 0.05
These ideas don't really help their navy to perform better, instead its more of two "losing less" bonuses, which i simply fail to understand the reason behind them since Portugal wasn't exactly renowned for being able to take a hit and keep on fighting, in fact usually after experiencing a large defeat it translated into complete and imediate colapse of their power projecting cappabilites, such as the cases of Alcacér Quibir and the Gravelines (A commun trait among smaller nations with no reserves to replenish their losses).
Land:
defensiveness = 0.1
artillery_power = 0.1
These do make sense from a historical perspective, in fact, the idea name is about a real historical institution. However I just think that including a 1790's institution as an idea that will innevitably be unlocked in the mid 1500's makes no sense. And from a gameplay perspective an artillery bonus as the last idea is clearly a mid-late game benefit, and i don't know how much i need to stress this but Portugal's peak of power was in the very early game, from game start to the mid 1500's only. Gameplay wise they are the exact opposite of real life, their start is very weak and then eventually become strong while in reality they started very strong but started to decline quickly.

They also didn't adress other issues such as Bandeirantes being a +1 Merchant (They were absolutely not merchant by any definition of the word), and Trade Efficiency making absolutely no sense due to the glaring inneficiency of the Portuguese trade apparatus, such as their Antwerpen trade center going bankrupt in 1549 and the Casa da India going bankrupt by 1560, despite this being during the territorial peak of the empire and there not being any European competition in the spice trade yet...

Well, to be fair at least its better than nothing.
While i agree with some of your points I disagree that Portugal lost its projection capability after alcacer quibir for example.
While it was a tragedy, it was just an army (albeit led by the king) that got destroyed. The rest of the Empire remained.
What ruined Portugal projection capability was a less than favourable union with Spain.

About the ideas, well it's something. Beggars cant be choosers. I would prefer different traditions with defense and infantry combat ability and light ship combat power, after all the Square- Rigged caravel was a thing:

The square-rigged caravel held a notable role in the Portuguese expansion during the age of discovery, especially in the first half of the sixteenth century, for its exceptional maneuverability and combat capabilities. This ship was also sometimes adopted by other European powers. The hull was galleon-shaped, and some experts consider this vessel a forerunner of the fighting galleon, by the name of caravela de armada.[1]
 

Ursul

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Province must be considered overseas both from nation and any subjects of nation, not including tributaries
Can we break down Asia into a few smaller sub-continent for that purpose? Or at least separate the tradespice islands from the rest?
 

PARAfel

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These Government reforms will be available for the Dharma players or only for the Expansion purchasers?

Sorry, i dont read all the text...
 

Fediuld76

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By Balders Balls this was 37 pages in my Doc application... I need some coffee
That update, alongside all other other changes, feels like we getting the EU4 final patch before EU5 is announced. As it feels in similarly to CK2 Holy Fury patch and DLC we got in 2018. :rolleyes:
 

AlazkanAssassin

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While I like this, I think it'll be a bit hard to determine how much point a province has, hence the exact requirements to add a province becoming a bit confusing for the palyer...
I agree with you completely. That idea would be very confusing to players, and for that reason it should be rejected.

As I have given it more thought, i think that defining it by province is just the wrong way to go. Trade companies exist as separate companies by trade node, why should their existence not also be tied to the trade nodes?

I now suggest that all provinces within one trade node either allow a specific nation to make a trade company or not, together. No finer level of detail is beneficial.

I also think it that it should not be tied to anything that changes. Capital location is an acceptable exception.

Perhaps any trade node that is three (3) or fewer LAND trade steps away from your capital is ineligible to be a trade company? Naval connections don’t count against you.
Also any trade node in which the main province (where it appears visually) is in the same super region as your capital is ineligible.
 
Last edited:

regne_valencia

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that's not necessarily a given, since they no longer share idea groups. It is possible that they've only given it to castile
Then is better they give the marines to Spain, Castille having marines and Spain without marines is something with no sense
 

Bandua_of_Gallaecia

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While it was a tragedy, it was just an army (albeit led by the king) that got destroyed. The rest of the Empire remained
It wasn't "Just an army" it was one of the largest armies in Portuguese history up to that date (Manpower has always been the greatest in the Portuguese military), and the irreparability of the losses was such that Spain could easily force Portugal into a personal union 2 years later (The portuguese could barely raise 8k men to defend themselves).

What ruined Portugal projection capability was a less than favourable union with Spain.
Union that was only possible due to the very debilitated state of the Portuguese army and nobility after that battle. Portugal was able to sucesfully repell every single Castillian/Spanish invasion they ever suffered throught history, don't you think the reason why they completely failed this time, might have something to do with the irreparabe losses they suffered less than 2 years prior?
 

Pretorius07

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  • Ramparts adding fort levels looks obnoxious. EU4 already suffers from Siege Syndrome pretty badly, and I can already imagine the AI spamming out this building on every fort province in the world.
Totally agree with the whole post. Especially this one. Im affraid that not only fort province will have rampart but others as well. Imagine there will be no more carpet siege!
 

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I'll have to say that i am disapointed with the Portuguese ideas rework. Sure they are not terrible anymore, but they still make very little sense from either a historical or gameplay point of view.
Lets analyze the new bonuses:
Naval:
sunk_ship_morale_hit_recieved = -0.33
disengagement_chance = 0.05
These ideas don't really help their navy to perform better, instead its more of two "losing less" bonuses, which i simply fail to understand the reason behind them since Portugal wasn't exactly renowned for being able to take a hit and keep on fighting, in fact usually after experiencing a large defeat it translated into complete and imediate colapse of their power projecting cappabilites, such as the cases of Alcacér Quibir and the Gravelines (A commun trait among smaller nations with no reserves to replenish their losses).
Land:
defensiveness = 0.1
artillery_power = 0.1
These do make sense from a historical perspective, in fact, the idea name is about a real historical institution. However I just think that including a 1790's institution as an idea that will innevitably be unlocked in the mid 1500's makes no sense. And from a gameplay perspective an artillery bonus as the last idea is clearly a mid-late game benefit, and i don't know how much i need to stress this but Portugal's peak of power was in the very early game, from game start to the mid 1500's only. Gameplay wise they are the exact opposite of real life, their start is very weak and then eventually become strong while in reality they started very strong but started to decline quickly.

They also didn't adress other issues such as Bandeirantes being a +1 Merchant (They were absolutely not merchant by any definition of the word), and Trade Efficiency making absolutely no sense due to the glaring inneficiency of the Portuguese trade apparatus, such as their Antwerpen trade center going bankrupt in 1549 and the Casa da India going bankrupt by 1560, despite this being during the territorial peak of the empire and there not being any European competition in the spice trade yet...

Well, to be fair at least its better than nothing.
Whule i agree with se of your points i disagree that Portugal lost its projection capability after alcacer quibir for example.
While it was a tragedy, it was just an army (albeit led by the king) that got destroyed. The rest of the Empire remained.
What ruined Portugal projection xapability was a less than favourable union with Spain.
I agree with the spirit of your concerns, but I'm honestly more afraid that if we trash the changes too much they won't change anything and that would be worse...

RE: naval buffs - "Morale Hit when losing a ship reduction" is pretty much the most useless NI in the game. The new Naval combat system should make this less useless, but it still feels wrong considering Portugal had a historically strong navy and were renowned for their ship building and naval technology well into the 17th century. Whereas this idea seems to basically be saying "Your navy sucks and you will lose Naval battles, this will help it hurt less when you lose."

A buff to Naval tradition or ship combat ability would make more sense historically IMHO.

RE: Artillery buffs - I'm torn because it's great that Portugal gets a military idea finally, but agree that from a historical perspective this is an odd choice. A reference to the Portuguese Military Orders (Order of Christ, Order of Aviz, & Order of Santiago of the Sword) would make much more sense in the greater context of the game, for example.
 

Sete

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It wasn't "Just an army" it was one of the largest armies in Portuguese history up to that date (Manpower has always been the greatest in the Portuguese military), and the irreparability of the losses was such that Spain could easily force Portugal into a personal union 2 years later (The portuguese could barely raise 8k men to defend themselves).


Union that was only possible due to the very debilitated state of the Portuguese army and nobility after that battle. Portugal was able to sucesfully repell every single Castillian/Spanish invasion they ever suffered throught history, don't you think the reason why they completely failed this time, might have something to do with the irreparabe losses they suffered less than 2 years prior?
The devil is on the details tho:
D. Antonio lacked support from what was left of the Portuguese nobility and high clergy, which chose to support Philip II instead.
Dom António was therefore forced to recruit an irregular army composed mainly of local peasants and townspeople as well as 3,000 African slaves who fought for António in exchange for their freedom.

I don't usually deal with "what ifs", but obviously lacking the support of the 2 most powerful groups in the country does not help.
Not saying that Portugal was left in a good state, the ransoms for the captured soldiers and nobles were debilitating, but like I said the projection capability remained.
I do not completely disagree from what you are saying tho.

About the NI, I was expecting something else aswell. :/
 
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Bandua_of_Gallaecia

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The devil is on the details tho:
D. Antonio lacked support from what was left of the Portuguese nobility and high clergy, which chose to support Philip II instead.
Dom António was therefore forced to recruit an irregular army composed mainly of local peasants and townspeople as well as 3,000 African slaves who fought for António in exchange for their freedom.

I don't usually deal with "what ifs", but obviously lacking the support of the 2 most powerful groups in the country does not help.
Not saying that Portugal was left in a good state, the ransoms for the captured soldiers and nobles were debilitating, but like I said the projection capability remained.
Yes, that is indeed true.
But regardless, this whole army replacement debate is a bit of a moot point (my fault for bringing it up i admit) since the bonus in question is about Naval battle morale endurance in the face of heavy losses and (paradoxically) also about retreating more often.

The more i think about it the less sense it makes.
 
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Beagá

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Solid patch, can´t wait for it!
 

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Yes, that is indeed true.
But regardless, this whole army replacement debate is a bit of a moot point (my fault for bringing it up i admit) since the bonus in question is about Naval battle morale endurance and (paradoxically) retreating.
No worries, healthy debate is always productive. ;)

I'm always concerned on giving my feedback on this things due to my bias.

I'm glad that the 2 redundant bonus of trade power ( I think) were consolidated.

I do like the last NI a lot, and would love to see it earlier maybe as the second one.

Naval Traditions, there are quite a few options, this one, while it makes sense, lacks some oomph.

Still eager for the patch, and see how my strategy will change. Maybe I can choose offensive as a second tree for some east Asia conquest.
 

 

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Portugal, England and Great Britain have uniquely higher marine forcelimits but we also listened to your feedback and added easy access to Marines for Netherlands, Venice & Castille. The rest have to take naval ideas or a policy to have access to it. Which you really want to already, if you are aiming to be a relevant naval power anyway.
Castile instead of Aragon?! Mfw
 

Sete

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For the sake of visibility, for people thinking it's weird Portugal having such a big bonus on Marines:
(Quoting myself, kinky I know)

While portuguese marines were created officially in 1618, by the beginning of the 16th century the Portuguese had developed a highly effective form of what would today be called combined-operations warfare. This entailed making coastal landings with naval gunfire support – often in the face of immediate resistance – and these increasingly relied upon the latest forms of artillery and on infantry armed with matchlock arquebuses. For example, in 15th-century Morocco, the capture of Arzilah and Tangier by Portuguese seaborne assaults in 1471 relied heavily upon naval cannon-fire. However, this reliance upon the support of naval artillery meant that penetration further inland was often impossible.

By the time the Portuguese reached India and Arabia their amphibious assault tactics were probably the best in the world.
 

PossibleTango

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With even more building now, do you plan on making building slots more plentiful in some way?
 

Bandua_of_Gallaecia

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. I would prefer different traditions with defense and infantry combat ability and light ship combat power
Naval Traditions, there are quite a few options,
So far every suggestion you gave goes in accordance to my ideal of what their proper NI would look like, and you seem to know your history better than I do, so I'm going to ask you to give your two cents on the suggestions i made a few months ago. Surely, i'm not expecting the devs to actually take it into consideration, but i might make a mod about it later and i want it as historically accurate and yet balanced as possible.
 
Last edited:

adin85

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I have question about Siberian Frontier. There is chance create this land as Trade Companys?.