EU4 - Development Diary - 27th of August 2019

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neondt

Game Design Lead
Paradox Staff
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Jul 24, 2011
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And now for something completely different.

Introducing 1.29: Manchu!

manchu loading screen.png


Think always of your ancestors,
and cultivate virtue.
Always strive to accord with the Mandate,
and seek for yourself many blessings.
Before Yin lost their multitudes,
They were in accord with the High Di.
Look to Yin as you would a mirror,
The great Mandate is not easy to keep.
- The Book of Odes

The 1.29 Manchu update will include not only the long-awaited 64 bit upgrade, but also a hefty chunk of free content for North-East Asia. Over the next few weeks I’ll be laying out what you can expect from the Manchu update; our focus is of course on Manchuria itself, but the update also has a huge impact on Mongolia, China, Japan, Korea, and parts of Central Asia.

Before we get to that, I’ll say a word about how Manchu came to be. Early in the year we set our programmers to work on tech debt (explained here by our own @MatRopert ), while @Groogy and @DDRJake were busy laying out the design for next years’ European update and expansion. With the design for the future at such an early stage it didn’t make sense for Team Content Design (at the time consisting of myself, @Ofaloaf, and @Caligula Caesar) to begin working on Europe just yet. And so we decided to use this time to create a free content update. We had originally planned to release Manchu somewhat earlier in the year, but various factors beyond our control prevented this from happening and we’ve finally secured a September release. While Manchu will contain some bug fixes, it won't contain the quality of life features we've been talking about lately - those will come with the Europe update next year. So to reiterate: the time we spent working on Manchu did not take any time away from our work on the European update.

With that out of the way, let’s talk about China!

Many players, including myself, haven’t been happy with the balance of Mandate of Heaven’s Emperor of China mechanics and the way they affect the experience of playing in East Asia. What we typically see in 1.28 is a perpetually stagnant Ming and by extension a stagnant East Asia. Players are averse to taking the Mandate of Heaven even as Qing because it is seen (somewhat justifiably) as more trouble than it’s worth. Players starting as Ming are offered very little challenge in their campaign.

We decided to use the Manchu update as an opportunity to revisit these mechanics. We want the Mandate to be desirable while still presenting a unique challenge and gameplay experience for both Ming and those who would usurp the Mandate. What follows is a list of the changes we’ve made to Mandate of Heaven’s Empire of China system:
  • Neighboring non-tributary nations no longer cause Mandate loss.
    • This prevents Mandate loss from bordering large nations such as Russia.
    • It also means that nations that take the Mandate from Ming no longer experience crippling Mandate loss from non-tributaries.
    • The Empire will still gain Mandate from having tributaries, so it is still rewarding to surround the Empire with Tributary states.
  • For each 5 loans the Empire loses -0.03 Mandate per month. Bankruptcy causes a -0.05 Mandate loss per month.
    • The Emperor is expected to bring prosperity to China, not poverty and ruin.
    • Opponents of the Empire now have the option of target the Chinese economy in all manner of creative ways in order to reduce its Mandate.
  • Passive Meritocracy decay has been increased to -2 per year
    • In 1.28, simply having low skill advisors is enough to maintain maximum Meritocracy at all times, so there is no need to ever worry about low Meritocracy.
    • This makes Meritocracy a more scarce resource that will take more time to accumulate.
  • For each 5 Corruption, the Empire loses 0.05 Mandate per month
    • Speaks for itself. A corrupt Empire is not a healthy Empire.
  • -100% Mercenary Availability at 0 Mandate changed to -200%
    • At 0 Mandate Ming shouldn’t be able to hire mercenaries. With Ming’s huge forcelimit, any positive modifier to Mercenary Availability (e.g. Administrative Ideas) allows them to hire a large mercenary army.
  • Low Mandate now has a scaling Global Manpower penalty, up to -50% at low Mandate
    • Ming has a gigantic Manpower pool. Wearing it down is difficult, especially when they take Quantity ideas (which again they often do). Their sheer numbers can help them overcome opponents that they historically struggled to defeat.
    • Dynasties in periods of economic or political decline struggled to raise large or disciplined armies. This was another indicator that the Dynasty was at risk of losing the Mandate.
  • High Mandate now reduces monthly War Exhaustion, up to -0.03 per month
    • This rewards a strong Empire with the ability to sustain itself in wars for long periods of time. It broadcasts that attacking the Empire at a time of strength may be unwise.
    • When a dynasty is perceived to clearly and firmly possess the Mandate, the people are assured that the hardships of war will pass and the Emperor will be victorious.
  • Two new Ruler Personalities have been added, exclusive to the Emperor of China. Humane gives a bonus to Mandate while Petty reduces it.
    • Based on the Confucian concept of ‘ren’. A morally virtuous Emperor is the center of a harmonious Empire.
  • Not owning and controlling Beijing, Nanjing, and Canton reduces Mandate by -0.05 per month each.
    • This adds new tactical and strategic elements to both playing and fighting the Empire. You can damage the Empire’s Mandate by sieging key cities, and even further by taking them in a peace deal. The Emperor must take care to defend these key provinces.
  • The Unguarded Nomadic Frontier disaster will now account for the development of the subjects of Horde nations
    • It is no longer necessary for a Horde that wishes to challenge the Empire to directly control massive swathes of land. Vassals and Marches can be used to increase your power for this purpose.
  • Low Meritocracy now causes Corruption, up to 0.1 per year at 0 Meritocracy. High Meritocracy reduces corruption to the same degree.
    • A player-led Qing or Ming will likely be expansionist. This reduces the impact of corruption from territories. And can be a means to reduce Mandate loss from high corruption.
    • Meritocracy represents the efficiency of the Confucian bureaucracy. Corrupt bureaucrats (which in Ming was extremely common) did not administer efficiently.
  • The Empire gains 0.05 Mandate per month while using the Unite China CB, and new Emperors gain +0.05 monthly Mandate for 20 years. Countries that seize the Mandate begin with 60 Mandate and 60 Meritocracy.
    • This helps countries that have recently gained the Mandate an early source of Mandate, a common issue when playing as Qing or Yuan.
  • We’ve rebalanced a number of Chinese historical events. I won’t go into the details now but an important focus was adding Mandate effects to many event options.

In addition, we’ve designed two new highly impactful event chains to shake up the Chinese world.

dd_ming_crisis.jpg

The Mandate is not easy to keep;
May it not end in your persons.


Though the Ming dynasty was ultimately defeated by the Manchu conquest, its collapse had already begun before the invasion. Disaster and mismanagement within the Ming dynasty were the catalyst for a major peasant rebellion in the 1630’s led by Li Zicheng. Li Zicheng was extremely successful; his forces won many battles against the Ming armies and he captured Beijing in 1644, proclaiming himself Emperor of the Shun Dynasty. Only then did the newly-united Manchus invade, initially under the pretext of defeating Li Zicheng’s rebellion. We’ll talk more about the Manchu invasion next week, for now we’re interested in Ming’s internal crisis.

The Crisis of the Ming Dynasty is a new Disaster that will challenge Ming players and very often lead to the collapse of an AI-controlled Ming. The Disaster can begin any time after the Age of Discovery if Ming has low Mandate or has lost the Mandate entirely. When the Disaster hits they’ll immediately receive penalties to Land Morale, Technology Cost, and Global Unrest, as well as taking a flat hit to their Stability, Mandate, and Corruption. Events will periodically spawn Peasant rebels. This is going to be a very difficult time for Ming. Ming must restore their Mandate by any means necessary or face dire consequences. If rebels manage to occupy 10 provinces in a single Chinese region (North China, South China, and Xinan), an event will fire that immediately spawns breakaway nations. In Xinan the Yunnan Protectorate (represented by the nation of Dali) will demand self-rule, which can be accepted at the cost of Mandate or denied at the cost of a bloody war. In the South, local governors will take matters into their own hands, defying the authority of the Empire and raising their own armies to restore order. Wu and Yue will be spawned on the map, and once again the choice to accept their independence or fight against them will be presented. In North China there will be no such choice. Rebels will seize power in the region and declare that Ming has lost the Mandate of Heaven, proclaiming the Shun Dynasty and immediately declaring war on Ming for the Mandate. The southern revolter states can play a role in the rise of the Qing later in the game, representing the Three Feudatories which we’ll talk about more next week. Ming players must now guard their Mandate jealously lest they fall into ruin and despair.

dd_tumu_crisis.jpg

In this playthrough Esen Taishi managed to get himself killed in battle, but Kundelung Kirghiz has taken up his mantle.

Another challenge to Ming rule came much earlier in our time frame. By 1444 the Oirats had consolidated their power under the ambitious warlord Esen Taishi (more about the Oirats next week). In 1449 he led an invasion of China, captured the Emperor in battle, and came close to winning the siege of Beijing. These events are known as the Tumu Crisis, and they’re now an event chain in EU4. As the Oirats begin the game refusing to pay tribute to the Ming Emperor, they often find themselves in an early war. When this happens Ming receives an event informing them that the Emperor has decided to lead his armies personally, converting the Yingzong Emperor into a (very inept) general. If the Oirats defeat a Ming army commanded by the Yingzong Emperor in a battle an event will immediately fire granting the Oirats combat and siege bonuses, while Ming receives an event reduces their Mandate and Stability, as well as forcing them into a temporary Regency Council. From here the goal for the Oirats is to capture Beijing before the Emperor dies and before Ming appoints a new Emperor to the throne. Should the Oirats succeed the rewards are great: they’ll immediately occupy every province in the North China region owned and controlled by Ming, resulting in a huge amount of warscore which they can use to secure an advantageous peace deal. The capture of Beijing will also cause huge Mandate loss for Ming, though their beloved Emperor will be returned safely to the throne. By pursuing the goals presented in this event chain an Oirat player can make a powerful opening move in their campaign, potentially paving the way for a restored Yuan dynasty.

We’ve had a long time to observe the impact of our work in this region and we’re very satisfied with the results. In 1.29 Ming survives “intact” to the end of the game in less than 1⁄3 of hands-off tests, with the remainder of cases having a variety of results such as a powerful Qing dynasty, a perpetually shattered China, the rise of a new Chinese dynasty (Shun and Wu are the most common), and opportunistic European conquests that exploit China’s internal troubles. I’ve even seen Mughal China a couple of times. The result here is a much more dynamic and much less predictable political situation in East Asia. In the hands of a player Ming is still by far the most powerful nation in the game, though it faces new challenges to its dominance.

It’s great to finally have the chance to talk about 1.29 Manchu after so many months. I’ll be back with more over the next few weeks building up to its release in September. Our next development diary will hone in on the 3 M’s: Maps, Manchus, and Mongols!


Manchu will be a free update to EU4 with new content and the 64 bit upgrade. The European Update and DLC will be coming in 2020.
 
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Yay, all other things asaide, I've been waiting for some extra stuff for Korea for a very long time. Hopefuly, it's not going to be just conquest missions, but more internal flavour as well.

I think you'll be pleased when we start talking about Korea then :)
 
Why not bring back 50% minimum autonomy in Ming lands? It was a good solution to many problems that you are now trying to solve via penalties to the mandate etc.

The autonomy floor felt arbitrary and unsatisfying. Rebalancing the Mandate is a better solution, it's clearly tied to factors that players can influence both as the Mandate holder and as an opponent of the Empire.
 
Please tell me we will also hear about Wokou pirates razing Chinese coasts! I really liked these changes especially Oirat.

Maybe ;)

@neondt Alongside map changes and events, will some eastern nations like for example Ming, Chinese Minors, Manchu, Qing, Mongolia and Korea get revamped mission trees? :)

But regardless, this update looks like a lot of gype, finally we can see a rise of new dynasties :D

Yes, expect new mission trees! I'll show off a couple of them next week :)
 
Will the Crisis of the Ming Dynasty disaster be a constant threat until it fires and is dealt with or is there a cut-off point (e.g. reaching age of revolutions or any other point) when the player will no longer have to fear it?
Also, will factions still be for MoH-less China only? I feel like not having them if you use MoH being a lost opportunity for extra flavor.

The Crisis is a constant threat. The only way to end the threat is to survive it.

And revamped ideas?

The update will contain some new national idea sets :)
 
How about map updates? China has much worse province density compared to India. This is not right, IMO.

A map update to China "proper" isn't within the scope of this update, but we've reworked the map elsewhere in North Asia :)
 
I really like this Focus here! Ming and Asia felt a bit left behind (as well as the middle east) Missions and Events wise after the GB immersion Pack/Mission changed (espc. After they had "new" dlcs)

So there will be FREE Missions for this Nations or will there be differences if you have the Mandate of heaven DLC or not?

All mission trees will be free. Some missions have different triggers and effects with Mandate of Heaven but everyone gets the same set of missions.

Also, if Ming passes a reform and loses mandate because of it, won't it make them a bit too vulnerable now?

That's the point.

Does Ming get more provinces and developments ?o_O

Nope.

Good choice in my opinion to tie the fall of Ming with disasters / events and not with mandate loss from borders. The results from your tests show a good balance (2/3 times Mingplosion).

I assume that the mandate loss from passing reforms is not changed, so I guess you have 2 options as a player in East / S.E Asia : Either wait for when Ming has passed a reform and are low on mandate early game (I can see an easy death spiral if you play Japan and have naval dominance in a trade war) or wait for the disaster to fire and then go for it.

By reading at the changes it also seems that keeping high mandate as a player will not be too much of a chore, so I guess I can finally try a Yuan WC that I wanted :)

Yeah, playing in SEA opportunism will be important if you're looking to take down Ming. Either that or remain a tributary until you're powerful enough to take them on in more equal terms.
 
I'm confused about that tooltip: "Oirat gets 'Captured the Emperor' until the death of Kundelung I Kirghiz". Isn't that the wrong guy? It should be until the death of the Ming ruler.

That's just an extra bonus that your ruler gets for capturing the Emperor. The Emperor will remain captured until he dies or until he's returned to the throne. Ming will get their own penalty for this.
 
I can see that, but it just seemed quite extreme. Ming on 25 mandate, which is a logical number after passing a reform would have both a 25% global manpower reduction and generally would not be able to recruit mercs. If you say, it's intended, alright. At this rate, AI Ming will probably often implode because of them shooting themselves into the foot which just seems odd.

I won't pretend that this isn't an extreme solution, but I honestly think it's in the best interests of the game. The results of our extensive observation (due to the amount of time we've had between implementation and release) validate this in my eyes.
 
A mandate linked disaster makes a lot of sense.

Will similar disasters affect non-Ming holders of the dragon throne should their mandate fall below a certain threshold?

It's exclusive to Ming. We didn't want to penalize new dynasties as there's already a perception that the Mandate is more trouble than it's worth. Part of the purpose of the rebalance was to change this perception (and indeed change the reality).
 
What does the 64 bit feature include? The possibility to use more than 4Gb of RAM?
This means the game will go smoother? By how much?
As I said at the time, the main reason for the 64 bits transition is future proofing. 32 bits support is not expected to last forever in operating systems (OSX will drop it this Fall, Ubuntu had some plans but backpedaled...).
Performance-wise with 64 bits you win some and you lose some, but on average should remain similar.
However the game should be able to go over 4GB, even if we don't have use cases for it in vanilla EU4. Normal usage typically seats between 1.5 and 2GB.
We did update mapmode rendering with a more modern technique, so you might observe a slight improvement on that side.
 
Just to be clear, is this event deliberately designed so that it never happens to a human Ming player? Since no human player would put an inept emperor-general in charge of the army anyway, but especially so if they are aware of this event.

If this isn't the case, then I think it would make sense to give some kind of bonus to the Ming army being led by the emperor. Again, because otherwise, the human will have no incentive to put him in charge of one.

A human player shouldn't be inept enough to let this happen. You'd have to be deliberately trying to get yourself killed.
 
So Mandate is now tied to the Chinese economy?

So seeing as Ming's economy is the strongest in the game by far, and now it dosen't have to Tributary everyone, we'll see Mingblob every single game now instead of a Ming that is a sleeping dragon?

I'm sure that'll be even more fun for playing in the region, should Ming ever get an Expansionist ruler, you get invaded by an expansionist juggernaught of over 1,000 development.

Also taking the Mandate shouldn't feel bad, but you better have Beijing; Canton and Nanjing before you take that Mandate... otherwise it's gonna feel REALLY bad.

We've tested this extensively and that is not what happens. Try to avoid jumping to conclusions :)
 
Yes, this I understand. What I was wondering was, is it by design that the event gives a human Ming player no incentive to risk their emperor in battle? Because that looks like how it is currently set up.

The human player is not incentivized to do that. The events are designed to punish the Emperor's ineptitude, and if the player is Ming then the degree of ineptitude is up to them and not the AI.
 
@neondt - The way this text seems to go is that Yue is currently being repurposed to represent one of the feudatories (the southernmost one, led by Wu Sangui's)? I'd like to highlight the fairly obscure tag Zhou (CZH) existing to represent it already in the later bookmarks, Wu Sangui himself being included in the history files, as he had declared himself the ruler of the "Great Zhou Empire". There's no need to repurpose Yue, a completely unrelated tag, to represent a tag that already exists.

Wu Sangui's realm was a bit further to the west. More on him next week
 
IT'S....
(que Liberty Bell march)

Is there anything new in this update that is specific to Korea? How will the changes in this update impact a playthrough as Korea?

We'll talk about Korea the week after next most likely.
 
To fully revisit the region, please fix the bugged Shinto incidents. The "Proliferation of Firearms" can't result in the isolationist ending and two our of it's three events don't work properly - their isolationist options decrease isolationism, while the open ones increase it.

I believe we fixed that one.
 
While we're on the subject of weakening Ming, have you considered representing the negative impact of the sea bans on Chinese trade?

I would argue that Ming should start with a negative modifier affecting it's tradepower or trade income, that would go away upon passing the second Mandate reform (Reform the Seaban). That way China would be slightly less obscenely rich at the start and the player would have a stronger incentive to pass the reforms and risk the negative effects of low mandate. This could also interact with the Wokou pirate events, as the sea bans contributed to the spread of piracy (even though they were meant, among other things, to contain it).

On another topic, I';m quite intrigued how the capture of the Emperor will work, where Ming gets a regency, but at the same time, the Emperor can die, implying that he does not disappear, but somehow still exists. Will there be a new kind of regency implemented or is the death of the captive just handled by an event?

I think this is a very different approach to "handling" Ming (and China in general) than what EU4 has gone with and this isn't the time for a radical change of direction. But it's worth considering what kind of mechanics we might want in the far flung future of the franchise.

The captured Emperor uses the exiled ruler mechanics. It's how the lottery elections work. It's a cool system but not very frequently used.
 
Oh, I didn't know that such a thing exists (exiled rulers, I mean). This has so much potential for civil wars and revolutions and wars in general (and maybe generals in wars). I hope this get used more in the future.

I want to find more appications for it.

Though it can be a little clunky and opens up all kinds of "what if" scenarios that QA will shout at me for not considering :p