Endonym or exynom?

[Foke]

When is one used over the other? Like why are the Iroquois called Haudenosaunee when the Finnish aren't called the Suomi?

 

[Birchinjaro]

To me it seems like a mix of the most common English name when people don't get offended,and the local native name when they do
So since nobody is complaining and calling paradox racist for calling the Finns "Finnish" they keep it as such since that's the most common and established name,if they think people are going to complain then they use the Endonym

 

[InvisibleBison]

I think there are two general tendencies at work. On the one hand, Paradox tries to use names that are commonly used in English (Germans instead of Deutsche, Ottomans instead of Devlet-i Aliye). On the other hand, Paradox tries to be respectful towards historically oppressed or marginalized cultures, which often leads to using endonyms in place of inaccurate or offensive exonyms (thus Haudenosaunee instead of Iroquois).

 

[Streamlet]

Going by their "Wikipedia standard" thing for naming, I thought it'd be whenever the endonym is given as an alternate English name.

For example:

These 2 have the endonyms in bold, and those are the names used in PC, while for Germans it's just in brackets because we never really use that term in English:

So, while some terms on the map might still be seen as incorrect or offensive, it's not up to Paradox to be the first to change it

 

[GenericUsername1444]

Personally, I'm all for playing with endonyms as country names, because as a map staring enjoyer I know what stuff like Großgermania and Magyarorszag mean. I'd imagine some of you know what Sakartvelo means too.

There really should be a game rule for this. One rule that applies either exonyms or endonyms to all country names.

Seems simple enough.

 

[livebythecreed77]

I think there is a game option for using endonyms. And if so I will only play with that game option!

 

[LordThanatos]

This is how I see Paradox's process (For an English-localised game, replace English for whatever localisation is used, otherwise):

• Is the name a tag?
  • Is the tag the Byzantine/Roman Empire?
    • Y: Use the game rules
    • N: Use a name it's commonly known by in English
• Is the name a province?
  • Use the name it's commonly known by in English
• Is the name a location?
  • Is a localized name for the culture that controls it available? (Typically only if the culture has owned it at some point in history, or is adjacent.)
    • Y: Use that.
    • N: Use the name it's known by in English.
• Is the name a culture or religion?
  • Is the name commonly used in English considered derogatory?
    • Y: Is a period-accurate endonym available?
      • Y: Use that
      • N: ??? (This is where we often get long discussions, my ideal is to find something less accurate, but suitably non-derogatory)
    • N: Use the name it's commonly known by in English

Just as an example, Finn does not seem to be derogatory, so it can be used, German is not derogatory, so it may be used, French is not derogatory, so it may be used. Iroquois is generally understood to be a disparaging name, so the endonym Haudenosaunee is be used instead.

I think it's a pretty good solution, myself. I'd love to see an endonym option for tag names as a whole (Or at least the largest tags), but it's hardly required. The one thing that needs to be worked out by the team is that ??? part, which is not easy. I'm also sure they are using some cultural exonyms that should still be changed, and have been missed so far, if only because of how many there are.

 

[P.Quirinius]

I think there is a game option for using endonyms. And if so I will only play with that game option!

I would be more interested in a game option where only exonyms are used (if available), but they are in the language of your nation. Given this is already used for locations, it might actually not be that unrealistic. This would actually increase immersion, endonyms only option would feel odd, in my opinion, because this is just not the way anyone thinks about the world, unless they do an immense amount of work to be able to do it. Another step would be (although this is totally unrealistic except for major nations) to have the entire game in the common/court language of your nation.

 

[Aquila SPQR]

It's quite simple.

 

[Metz]

Iroquois is a French influenced word. So in this case, it wouldn't make sense to play a country with a name given to you by someone else in the future.