SWMH DevDiary . Caucasus and the Jazira

[theKing1988]

While you guys have been waiting for us to finish compatching and releasing the EE, we haven't been sitting on our hands. I have started working on my next project that will be a part of the SWMH release that will come after the EE. And i have now gotten so far in the process that i'm ready to give you guys a sneak peek into the new province setup

Kingdoms

Duchies

Some province-level pics
Western Armenia:

Georgia:

The Jazira:

And to possibly get you guys even more excited, the Christians of the Middle-East will get some long deserved love with this overhaul.

These are 867 screenies.

I have been unable to find some serious cultural differences in 867 and later, between the Aramaic speaking Western Syriacs and Eastern Syriacs (Modern day Assyrians). The only difference i can find is linguistic and geographic. So unless someone can give me some good sources or compelling arguments to prove me wrong the Syriacs are in one culture

Syriac Culture:

Syriac Religion:

I haven't forgotten the native Egyptian Coptic-speakers during this work. They have now been separated from their Misri lords as well

 

[Teutonic_Thrash]

Very unexpected, but much appreciated!
Especially the Azeri and Assyrians.

 

[deserk]

Awesome work! Yay. This gives so many new possibilities.

 

[Ese Khan]

This reminds me of what I think is an oversight where kings of Lesser Armenia hold the Hayk/Armenia kingdom title but not the Cilicia kingdom title. Has this been fixed?

 

[theKing1988]

This reminds me of what I think is an oversight where kings of Lesser Armenia hold the Hayk/Armenia kingdom title but not the Cilicia kingdom title. Has this been fixed?

It has. That change is a part of the EE

 

[topotamadre]

Incredible & Awesome! As a history amateur that I am, I found this really accurate!

Have you thinked about a release date? I'm really excited!

 

[DirtyRoberto]

cool

 

[EldarPanic]

Arent you spreading too thin with this now?I mean you still havent released EE and are working on something else not to mention why not take a brake ,nobody will say anything if you take a brake now and then.

 

[theKing1988]

Arent you spreading too thin with this now?I mean you still havent released EE and are working on something else not to mention why not take a brake ,nobody will say anything if you take a brake now and then.

Don't worry about that. I haven't changed a single thing in my area of the EE for weeks now. I had plenty of free time to start working on this

 

[Teutonic_Thrash]

Random question: what will the culture of the Turks in Azerbaijan be; Turkmen or (Anatolian) Turki?

 

[theKing1988]

Random question: what will the culture of the Turks in Azerbaijan be; Turkmen or (Anatolian) Turki?

As far as i have been able to ascertain from my research so far, Turkish didn't become a majority language amongst the Adharis until after a massive influx of Qizilbashis from Eastern Anatolia during the reigns of Sultan Bayezid and Selim (ca. 1480-1520). So i'm not sure that i will have any Turks in Azerbaijan in any of the startdates

ETA: I just noticed i might have misread your post earlier

 

[topotamadre]

They are not Turks on a culture group level within the CK2 timeframe. They are part of the Persian culture group. As far as i have been able to ascertain from my research so far, Turkish didn't become a majority language amongst the Adharis until after a massive influx of Qizilbashis from Eastern Anatolia during the reign of Sultan Selim.

The Adharis did speak a distinct Persian dialect though, that there is several mentions of in traveller's accounts. And Persians from the south immediately noticed this and had a rather difficult time completely understanding them. Also, just like the Daylamites, the Adharis were fiercely independent-minded and led several rebellions against Persian overlords when they had submitted to outside rule. The Adharis preferred to be ruled by their own, the Shirvanshahs.

Yay, Caucasian Gangsta

 

[Snugwow]

Are the Armenian Miaphysites still grouped the same as the ones in Ethiopia and have to suffer from low religious authority nearly the entire game due to having 3 of the holy sites in Ethiopia/Sudan? If so, at least that one holy site in Sudan should be moved to Armenia to represent Etchmiadzin if they're gonna still be grouped together.

 

[theKing1988]

We don't add new religions or split up existing ones in SWMH. So yeah, they're still gonna be grouped together.

 

[Zobertus]

As far as i have been able to ascertain from my research so far, Turkish didn't become a majority language amongst the Adharis until after a massive influx of Qizilbashis from Eastern Anatolia during the reigns of Sultan Bayezid and Selim (ca. 1480-1520). So i'm not sure that i will have any Turks in Azerbaijan in any of the startdates

But didn't the Turkification of the area begin earlier than that, so that there could be Turkish rulers or some Turkish provinces?

 

[theKing1988]

But didn't the Turkification of the area begin earlier than that, so that there could be Turkish rulers or some Turkish provinces?

Of course there is gonna be Turkish rulers.

But the process of widespread Turkification that would cause the provinces to flip culture didn't begin until way after the last startdate as far as i can see from my research so far. The Nomadic Turks never constituted more than a ruling elite and they were more than happy to rely on the prestige and loyalty of their Persian subjects, rather than suppress them. So the provinces remain Adhari (Persian) until the last startdate.

The Ildegizid rulers of Iranian Azerbaijan and Artsakh/Suenik from the 1140s - 1220s were a dynasty that originated from a Turkic Ghulam ancestor. Just to mention an example of Turkmen rulers that will be available

 

[Zobertus]

Thats what I thought: Turkish elite and Persian subjects.

 

[maltsefalcon204]

Confused here are you merging aramiac and assyrian?

As I found an article, which is a read but might help you

http://www.aramaic-dem.org/English/History/Henri/Aramaic_Syriac_or_Assyrian.htm

 

[theKing1988]

Confused here are you merging aramiac and assyrian?

As I found an article, which is a read but might help you

http://www.aramaic-dem.org/English/History/Henri/Aramaic_Syriac_or_Assyrian.htm

I am merging them. Which based on that article seems like the right choice

Suryaye seems to be the middle-ground word that every Syriac agrees upon, describes their nationality.

 

[Sol717]

There are several problems with the current Georgian layout:

• Tao was Georgian for the whole game period - it makes no sense to have it in k_armenia. It should also be independent in 867. There are also issues with the de-jure layout,
• Imereti should be part of Abkhazia instead of being its own duchy
• Klarjeti was always united with Tao, so it should be part of Tao.
• Kartli, rather than have provinces named after specific barony-size regions, could actually be divided into the three main regions of CK2-era Kartli: Shida Kartli (current Kartli - should be required to form d_kartli) Zemo Kartli (current Artaani province ) and Kvemo Kartli (current Samtskhe province). Klarjeti province could go to Tao.
• If you want to split Hereti up, you could separate the eastern end into Shaki.