Let's talk about economics

[jaycenornin]

The game's economy is in desperate need of an overhaul.

I have two primary complaints:

• Salvage quantity is too high
  
• The selling price of mechs & components is too low.

When I finish a mission I get loads of salvage. A couple partial mech chassis and several weapons and equipment items, with a total "value" of a few million c-bills. That's quite a haul! But if I really got all that money so quickly, it would ruin the "starving merc unit" ethos of the game. So in order to keep the game's economy from breaking entirely, I can only sell that equipment for ~10% of its actual value. There is no real world market or commodity where that makes sense (except for the occasional case of artificial scarcity with an open primary market, like diamonds).

The fix is relatively simple:

• Reduce the quantity of salvage dramatically. Force me to play through 3 or 4 or 5 missions before getting a partial mech chassis in salvage. Require me to salvage 4 or 5 chassis before I can put together a functional mech.
  
• Increase the sell prices of mechs and equipment to better reflect their actual value. If I have a functional Locust chassis, I should get 2m c-bills for it.

Let me explain why this makes better sense.

In the Battletech universe, especially in the 3025 era, battlemechs are a rare asset. They're hard to come by, hard to repair, expensive to maintain, and replacement parts are extremely hard to find because they almost exclusively come from battlefield salvage. While mech factories do exist, the mechs they produce are almost exclusively sold directly to the militaries of the major houses of the Inner Sphere, so almost all buying, selling, and trading takes place on the secondary market with used or salvaged equipment. For all intents and purposes, there is no primary market for mechs or mech equipment and supply is dramatically lower than demand.

Mechs and salvage are valuable, not simply because they are powerful war machines, but because they are scarce resources. Salvage is more valuable to a merc than c-bills because buying the right parts is hard. When you sell a mech or equipment, you get full price for it because your buyer can't just walk over to the nearest MechMart and buy a new one.

Everyone knows the terms "supply and demand". When a high demand item is in very short supply, prices go up, especially in the secondary market where prices can be well above retail in the primary market. Mechs are in high demand and short supply.

I expect the devs made the decision to design it the way it is because play testers got frustrated with low salvage rates. There's a difficult balancing act trying to reconcile realistic market prices with realistic salvage rates in a way that isn't just downright depressing for the "starving merc unit". But that's why the starving merc unit is a thing in this universe.

Side note: Mechwarrior 1 got it balanced right.

 

[Kell Aset]

I agree, like I said in other topic, from salvage we should be getting empty mech, no weapons. Also to put together a mech from partial salvage, from parts of mechs we shot to pieces during our battles, it should cost time & money to assemble it and yes, I wish we had way more parts to collect than 3, more like 8 !!! at least 8 (LL, LA, LT, CT, H, RT, RA, RL). Seems that according to AMA they want to make it 5, still not enough, we should be hunting for specific parts indeed.

We are getting so many parts from salvage, way too many, at least I have tons of them(altho I'm doing a lot of side missions, I'm not in hurry to do main story missions), we can get full mechs from parts too fast and so mechs in this game don't feel all that rare while they should. Also yea, selling mechs for cheap in game bugs me, if they are expensive to buy they should be as expensive when we want to sell them, bit less pricey if we want to sell our mech without weapons.

 

[jj284b]

or change it that if you destroy CT, you get nothing... back in days of MechCommander, player had to be very careful not to destroy mech he wanted to salvage.. i still remember trying to get Mad Cat through artillery barrage to kill its legs...

 

[Mosey]

As a modifier option, I'm in favor of this, but as a base game setting I disagree. All you're doing is inflating the amount of time you're fielding subpar mechs and a lot us would find five missions without any meaningful loot tedious.

For example, some people really like Long War for Xcom but I found it extremely annoying. I suspect I'd feel the same way here but that also doesn't mean I'm not in favor of options.

If you want less salvage, take less salvage. It's pretty simple, but I get some people like to be forced to do things. I like choices.

Edit: how many game hours should be a target for your collection to not suck might be a good question, and even now how you kill a mech determines how 'fast' you collect mechs. It's already up to us, in my view. Core mechs to slow down.

 

[jj284b]

its not about speed you get mechs.. from main story you can get decent mechs anyway... main issue is the inflation of prices.. that 10% is quite a strange.. id rather have less available salvage, but be able to sell it for more than current system where i drown in salvage, but sell it cheaper than breadrolls..

 

[Don't Panic]

or change it that if you destroy CT, you get nothing... back in days of MechCommander, player had to be very careful not to destroy mech he wanted to salvage.. i still remember trying to get Mad Cat through artillery barrage to kill its legs...

Yes. I remember having to leg a mech. If you blew the engine, that was the end. Head shots are, of course, the best.

 

[Mosey]

Perhaps so, but are you recalling the reputation system which directly changes sell and buy prices? There is a third slider on every mission for a reason, I think.

 

[jaycenornin]

@Mosey - as jj284b said, the point isn't really about how quickly you get mechs and build your unit. It is, for me especially, about fixing the glaring disparity between prices and values.

For comparison, in the current game you can salvage one or two or sometimes 3 complete chassis in the very first missions, but you sell these for ~200k c-bills so with some skill across 3 missions you could theoretically make 1.8m c-bills.
On the other hand, within the BT universe, it could take 3 missions (or more) to salvage a complete chassis, but you could sell it for 1.8-2m c-bills. (Using a Locust as a reference point.)

So changing the numbers around doesn't automatically have a significant impact on the difficulty of building your unit, but it feels more genuine in a universe where these things are supposed to be rare. It also encourages players to really play tactically in missions, which is kind of the point of the game. It would make the financial numbers game slightly more challenging, because you'd have to plan around a longer "feast or famine" cycle between larger payouts. And it would potentially make it take a bit longer to build up an arsenal of spare equipment for refitting mechs. But the overall impact to gameplay mechanics themselves could be kept minimal while improving the atmosphere of the game.

There are a lot of us who know that a Locust is worth 2m c-bills and we're appalled that we can't sell them for anything close to that. It'd be like finding a 20 carat diamond in your back yard and when you go to sell it they tell you "Yeah, it's genuine and pure and worth a $50k. We'll give you $20 for it." And then you look around and see that everyone's got 20 carat diamonds and you slump your shoulders and sigh "But I thought diamonds were supposed to be rare..."

 

[Mosey]

Again, though, what is your reputation at the place you're selling at? I doubt you'll ever get two million for a locust, but that 10% is attached to what rep level?

Oh, and in terms of diamonds...I hate to tell you but that is actually exactly how the diamond market does work...

The reasons why are complicated, but it boils down to an artifical supply shortage. Diamonds are not actually rare at all. I'm not saying this bit as an arguement since, to my knowledge it's not comparable to the game lore necessarily, just an interesting economic factoid.

I will say that there are enough mechs out in the periphery that none of the models like panther or locust feel at all rare, though.

 

[jaycenornin]

I chose the diamond metaphor for a reason it's artificial scarcity, and the fact that the BT economy works exactly like diamonds makes it feel artificial.
I respect your difference of opinion on this and thank you for your input. It's good to have another perspective and hopefully the devs can find a way to keep us both happy

 

[Black Maralyth]

I want someone to make a "Long War" type mod for this game with exactly these kinds of changes!