How to play as Muscovy -> Russia?

[Shatter12]

Hello, as I don’t really play around this region (predominately Western and Central Europe and sometimes Japan), I don’t really know much about it and did a few test runs. Playing as Muscovy, beating Novgorod isn’t really that much of a trouble (focusing on their borders with the wittelbach lands before taking Novgorod itself), but I find expanding everywhere else is.
Your technology is usually behind, as are your ideas. You usually are expanding either south into muslim which is reasonably hard to convert due to the lack of admin points from the conquests for religious ideas, or west into Uzbek and the like, which suffer the same issues. Due to Poland predominately being on unfriendly terms, institutions don’t really transfer to you, which means tech and ideas are usually 1-2 behind your western rivals.
However, ideas are also an issue as ideas for Russia I’m not really sure of. Do you go quantity or defensive, or religious or humanist, etc., etc.
TL;DR having trouble beating people who aren’t Novogorod or the great horde, finding the areas I conquest hard to convert, behind in technology and ideas, institutions are hard to come by and don’t know which ideas to have or take.
Thanks.

 

[makaramus]

take religius ideas as soon as you can its must have for any orthodox country
first:fully annex novgorod
second: Conquer great horde and crimea(if its not vassal to ottoman)
third:Annex kazan and small hordes like them simply crush rebellions
after that wait to form russia when you do simply expand into siberia without any trouble.you can conquer lithuania and take your culture group back from them whenever you notice they are weak

later join religius league war for bonuses and try to win (either catholic or protestant) for nice bonuses and age mission). since you are at very outside of europe if things go bad you can allways fall back to siberia and wait for war's end safety.
after forming russia instead of admin you need to focus on dip points for siberian frontier
idea picks in order(With third rome)
1)Religius
2)Defensive or Offansive(defensive is good if you can manage let attirtion kill your enemies before engaging them if you say it will take long time then offansive is great)
3)Admin
4)Diplomatic idea group

 

[Shinkuro Yukinari]

1. Getting Third Rome is usually recommended.
2. Streletsy can alleviate the issue of inferior tech, especially later on.
3. Maxing Patriarch Authority is preferable
4. When taking on Novgorod, try to focus primarily on the provinces you need to form Russia, then try to block off the Danes from taking any more
5. Usually Austria, Hungary and/or Bohemia hate Poland. Given that you'll be quite big, you might be able to strike an alliance and force them into a two-front war
6. Livonia is usually a good target once Novgorod is taken care of, since they will probably have no worthwhile allies and be weakaned due to the war with Poland and Lithuania. Of course, mind the AE
7. Don't take Exploration ideas! You have a special colonization mechanic if you have the DLC
8. Don't be too afraid to border Ming as he will have to siege down tons of 3 dev provinces in Siberia to get to anything worthwhile if he attacks you, burning his manpower slowly but steadily

Hopefully these tips help you in making Russia great

 

[PhoenixG]

Muscovy/Russia has an optic illusion of being big and strong. They do struggle in economic front. Until you building lots of buildings and manufactories, your eco will suck. If you don't expand into TC land, trade is a good option.

The unholy alliance with Ottoman is possible, since he starts with unknown attitude.

 

[Viking]

Ideas: Religious - Trade - Offensive - Econ - Defensive - Humanism - Quality - Quantity/Aristocratic ... it's important to get your economy humming. Once you can mass spam Fur Manufactories in Siberia and funnel all that filthy lucre to Novgorod or Kazan you will be rolling in it, all of it unsinkable.

Special units: Farm as many Streltzy and Cossacks as you can. With Religious you'll never really have problems with stability anyways.

Build forts in steppe provinces with wool or fish or grain and grant them to the cossacks, the more cossack provinces you have the more cossacks you get when you recruit them. Secondly cossack provinces give +1 attrition when being sieged.

How to Turboannex Novgorod: Pick Mission, take 100%, core provinces declare war on rver or odoyev or whoever novgorod has allied, white peace novgorod, truce is now 5 years.

How to beat Kalmar Union: Watch swedish liberty desire, at some point before denmark get's his first splendour bonus he'll go over 50% LD, support independence
How to beat PL Commonwealth: Ally and keep TO alive. Poland needs TO dead to form CW.

How to manage Instituitions: Don't contest Baltic node, get good relations with sweden , LO and TO. Develop a "Russian Highway" of high dev provinces adjecent to each other to speed up spread, use econ bonus, icon and province edict to get -40% dev cost bonnus. One trick to to wait to move capital to St Petersburg until AFTER Moscow gets printing press.

How to beat ming: Dow smallest Ming tributary, occupy all tributary's provinces, defend those provices, declare war on other tributary(your real target) white peace the first one and you can kill the target tributary at your leasure.

Just remember to manage your AE and to make sure that if you meet resistance from the steppe nomads fight them inside your own territory defending your own forts.

 

[Shatter12]

Thanks all. So I should get the Third Rome DLC when I can (probably will tomorrow), and then prioritise developing provinces near or around Moscow so I can force institutions? I tried to do that as Oda, but it ended up with me behind technology due to the amount needed.
So my ideas should most likely be Religious, Defensive, then diplomatic or influence? I try to balance the ideas (I.e. one from each monarch skill type) for the first three, then get what I need depending on my situation for the other 5.
Should I set my focus on admin points at the start so I get the required MP needed for both the ideas and the coring costs, plus an advisor or two or 3 if possible to make up for lost ground in the other 2 types?
Thanks.

 

[makaramus]

Thanks all. So I should get the Third Rome DLC when I can (probably will tomorrow), and then prioritise developing provinces near or around Moscow so I can force institutions? I tried to do that as Oda, but it ended up with me behind technology due to the amount needed.
So my ideas should most likely be Religious, Defensive, then diplomatic or influence? I try to balance the ideas (I.e. one from each monarch skill type) for the first three, then get what I need depending on my situation for the other 5.
Should I set my focus on admin points at the start so I get the required MP needed for both the ideas and the coring costs, plus an advisor or two or 3 if possible to make up for lost ground in the other 2 types?
Thanks.

well wait ... I can still suggest someting not including third rome too

conquer stuff as I said before but this time ideas are
1)religius(again)
2)Exploration
3)expansion
4)Defensive/offansive

you willl be weaker but still stronger than many thing around you. It will be better experince and fun for you if you play it with third rome actually
but if you ask me buy third rome when there is discount paradox loves making discount

 

[YuriiH]

1) Click Start.
2) …
3) PROFIT!

 

[Ptirodaktill]

Can Muscowy innerheight Burgundy? If yes, then the best course of action is to get to Burgundy by Novgorod->Norway->Scotland->England route. Should be possible to get close to RM distance in ~25 years.

 

[Nidhoegger]

Muscovy/Russia is imo one of the easiest nations ingame if you get a good start (which should be most of the time). Here's how I do it:

1. Annex Novgorod. You probably need 3 wars and should focus on the border with Sweden, so that Denmark doesn't get a hold there.
2. Take out the russian minors. Most of them won't have any worthwile allies, so this sould not be a problem.
3. Integrate your vassals asap. You can play the vassal-feeding game extremly well with Russia, since there are a ton of dead nations around (and more which will dissapear in the course of a game) which you can release as vassals and then feed.
4. Take out the Livonian Order before Poland does.
5. Do NOT support Swedens independece. Rather, claim their land and wait for their independece war. Attack when they are going against Denmark, rush their lands and peace out soon enough before they make peace with denmark. Do this two or three times and the nordics won't be a threat any longer.
6. Poland/Lithuania is a problem. They can make your life exeedingly hard even in the late game. Look for allies who hate them and go for them whenever they are in a big war. Try to get as much provinces out of them as you can in each war, it makes the following that much easier.
7. Go south as soon as you can, or the Ottos will meet you in the russian steppes. Prepare to go to war with them eventually, and do so when they are in another war. Deal with them like with Poland.
8. Whenever you don't have anything meaningful to do, beat up hordes or other central asian nations. Especially later, they are punchingbags for your massive armies.

Ideas: Religious - Offensive - Economic - Defensive - Diplo

 

[makaramus]

Muscovy/Russia is imo one of the easiest nations ingame if you get a good start (which should be most of the time). Here's how I do it:

1. Annex Novgorod. You probably need 3 wars and should focus on the border with Sweden, so that Denmark doesn't get a hold there.
2. Take out the russian minors. Most of them won't have any worthwile allies, so this sould not be a problem.
3. Integrate your vassals asap. You can play the vassal-feeding game extremly well with Russia, since there are a ton of dead nations around (and more which will dissapear in the course of a game) which you can release as vassals and then feed.
4. Take out the Livonian Order before Poland does.
5. Do NOT support Swedens independece. Rather, claim their land and wait for their independece war. Attack when they are going against Denmark, rush their lands and peace out soon enough before they make peace with denmark. Do this two or three times and the nordics won't be a threat any longer.
6. Poland/Lithuania is a problem. They can make your life exeedingly hard even in the late game. Look for allies who hate them and go for them whenever they are in a big war. Try to get as much provinces out of them as you can in each war, it makes the following that much easier.
7. Go south as soon as you can, or the Ottos will meet you in the russian steppes. Prepare to go to war with them eventually, and do so when they are in another war. Deal with them like with Poland.
8. Whenever you don't have anything meaningful to do, beat up hordes or other central asian nations. Especially later, they are punchingbags for your massive armies.

Ideas: Religious - Offensive - Economic - Defensive - Diplo

despite being easy they are lacking man power and admin points at very start of game because too many expansion they need to do all of them rich!
novgorod, great horde, crimea, kazan!
1)despite being weaker than you still that area got high attirtion making you lose a lot of man power and also novgorod's army will kill some of your men
2)Hordes are horde. even if you be careful they can make you fight at open terrain even once and it will drain your man power . you will still win dominating but man power severed.


also want to add someting: if you dow sweden middle of indepandence war then denmark once get sweden under control will be more willing to attack you to give sweden his cores back. also sweden may never try to gain indepandence again because he is now extremly weaker compared to denmark. if denmark manage to ally poland together they will finish you since sweden is now loyal so its not a good tactic... I prefer to see sweden keeping denmark and himself occupied until I form russia and colonize siberia after that its easy to defeat whoever won

 

[Lord Zsinj]

DoW Novgorod, and take your one core back, plus their entire border with Kalmar Union, Livonia & Lithuania. Your main army with general should be in position to all but stack wipe him from day one. Always declare on first of month, forts night be at zero maintenance as may armies. Also have a small stack ready to rush to capture the border with Livonia as the night dogpile. Once the main army is dealt with keep you stacks just big enough to siege +1 to keep attrition down. Have all you vassals set to attach to your armies, and have a couple loose infantry to herd them.

Odeyev is an easy vassal to pick up via diplomacy. While st war have a diplomat fabricating claims on Great Horde for their on border province. As soon Novgorod is peaced our, throw down on GH, grab their border with a Lithuania and have the points ready for a claim on Crimea once you Peace GH. Once that is done, throw down on Crimea and grab their border with a Lithuania plus Crimea itself. Peace out. Crimea’s neighbors should put them down now. No Ottoman Pontic Steppes. You are now ready to eat Tver and more of Novgorod. Diploannex Yaroslavl & Rostov. Time it do they complete at same time.

 

[PhoenixG]

Thanks all. So I should get the Third Rome DLC when I can (probably will tomorrow), and then prioritise developing provinces near or around Moscow so I can force institutions? I tried to do that as Oda, but it ended up with me behind technology due to the amount needed.
So my ideas should most likely be Religious, Defensive, then diplomatic or influence? I try to balance the ideas (I.e. one from each monarch skill type) for the first three, then get what I need depending on my situation for the other 5.
Should I set my focus on admin points at the start so I get the required MP needed for both the ideas and the coring costs, plus an advisor or two or 3 if possible to make up for lost ground in the other 2 types?
Thanks.

Third Rome DLC does give you siberian frontier. Without it, you kinda need exploration/expansion as second or third idea to colonize the siberia.

Can Muscowy innerheight Burgundy? If yes, then the best course of action is to get to Burgundy by Novgorod->Norway->Scotland->England route. Should be possible to get close to RM distance in ~25 years.

Very hard, since the one that can get BI is Castile, HRE emperor or HRE members. You're too far and too big the be an member. To become the emperor you need to catholic first.
So it's not really worth it.

 

[Nidhoegger]

despite being easy they are lacking man power and admin points at very start of game because too many expansion they need to do all of them rich!
novgorod, great horde, crimea, kazan!
1)despite being weaker than you still that area got high attirtion making you lose a lot of man power and also novgorod's army will kill some of your men
2)Hordes are horde. even if you be careful they can make you fight at open terrain even once and it will drain your man power . you will still win dominating but man power severed.


also want to add someting: if you dow sweden middle of indepandence war then denmark once get sweden under control will be more willing to attack you to give sweden his cores back. also sweden may never try to gain indepandence again because he is now extremly weaker compared to denmark. if denmark manage to ally poland together they will finish you since sweden is now loyal so its not a good tactic... I prefer to see sweden keeping denmark and himself occupied until I form russia and colonize siberia after that its easy to defeat whoever won

Manpower is no big problem anymore because of the Streltskys (?). With these you can keep Manpower afloot. Admin is indeed a problem, that's why you continously vassal feed.
Concerning Sweden: Until Sweden looses almost all of Finland, they will continue to seek independence. In almos all of my games I had at least two independence wars where I could feed on them. Of course, if Denmark allies Poland from the start, you got a huge problem. You can't attack north or west until much later in the game, since together they will rip you apart. But since Denmark and Poland try to go for the same land (TO, LO) that almost never happens until later when they both feel threatened by you. And by then it should not be that big of a problem.

 

[Dominion]

Ideas: Religious - Trade - Offensive - Econ - Defensive - Humanism - Quality - Quantity/Aristocratic

Trade?

 

[BarrosRodrigues]

Maybe this will help:

 

[Mortheim]

So, i really like to play as Russia. My record is having ~1500 dev by 1510.
So, what i do:
1) get 2nd lvl adm advisor (unrest is best), take mission for Novgorod and make it rival alongside with Kazan and GH;
2) switch to mil focus, through influence WARN EVERY HORDE YOU CAN SEE;
3) go to diplomacy screen where you can choose wanted lands and choose Polotsk and tverian prov near rostov;
4) go for Novgorod. It will have Ryazan and/or Odoyev. Try to eat all of them;
4.a) you can give provinces of Novgorod to Pskov excluding Novgorod and Kholm;
5) look at Pol+Lit PU and Pol alliances. When they go to war - backstab;
6) if they are taking too long to fight TO - eat Tver through Rostov claim and give all land to Rostov;
7) when they are somewhat deep into TO and their ally - GO BALLS DEEP (and create spynetwork a little bit before), give some land to Pskov;
7.a) if they have Denmark as ally try to focus hordes;
8) if you go for Poland without Denmark - grab defensive first, if Poland has strong allies and you can't dow it without calling them in - go for religious;
9) try then to go for hordes if you have manpower (Kazan for lands for Perm and some pp throug humiliate), later conquer lit;

Some points:
Religious as first is bad - you need A LOT of admin points.
Going for Hordes is bad.
Defensive+pomestja reform and chance to get jousting tournament along with +10% morale discounted advisor is OP against any enemy (15+10+10+10=45% additional morale not counting bonuses from Prestige, PP and other stuff).
Try to get Ivan III on throne asap.
Integrate Pskov and Rostov first, cause they will have additional land.
Don't forget to take cahs from people you fully annex.
Don't waste your PA till you can go for Moskva development with prosperity for spawning institution. Use PA to get 10% dev discount icon.
Feed vassals. I prefer to feed Pskov, Rostov and Perm, so i would be able to integreate first two asap.
Cossack estate is OP as hell at early-middle, so if you can get your hands on Ryazan state - give them 2-3 provinces there. Getting those +10% shock cav and +10% morale discounted advisor is game changer.
Yes, with high professionalism you can disband Streltsy for manpower, basically creating people from thin air.
Don't aim at professionalism (excluding events) until you form Russia.
Go for Polish lands - they are rich and make good estates.
Conquering Uzbek and getting their siberian lands is good for later colonization.
From hordes your 2 main targets are Kazan and Astrakhan, so you could place you trader in Astrakhan and steer more money through Kazan.

If you have any questions - i will be more than happy to answer.

 

[Rusky]

1)take Novgorod mission
2)rival Novgorod , do this after taking the mission because the mission changes to something weaker if you rival them.
3)spynetwork on Ryazan
4)attack Novgorod
5)spynetwork Poland, Your betting on Poland getting the Union
6)beat Novgorod ASAP with as little losses as possible. Annex Odotev who usually gets into a trade league with Novgorod as well.
7)after finishing Novgorod war, watch the PLC. Maybe annex Tver while you wait for the PLC to fight T.O. and Livonia. But definitely annex Ryazan.
8)Attack the PLC. You can win, especially if you still have your 4 shock general. Just play conservatively. Have your vassals support you and siege the fort for Smolensk. Leave your Forts open. This will cause some of their stacks to try and siege your land because the A.I. sees an opportunity. These are your targets for stack wiping. and with a 4 shock general its very easy. Just go for the small ones and keep away from the big ones.
9)take the land that borders Crimea and the like, maybe release Cheringov, just make sure to start annexing your other vassals asap. Ideally, you have 190 relations with one of them to start right away.
10)make sure to take religious as you prepare to kill the Hordes and push east like a mad man. Just make sure to ally Hungary and Austria if you can for some security.
11) try to take Crimea b4 the Ottomans vassalize them.

 

[Viking]

Trade?

Da Tovarich, TRADE! If you are going to plaster Siberia with Fur Manufactories you might as well get the income twice.

Plus you get those two dip policies +20% goods produced and +10% goods produced and +1% missionary strength, think of that being applied to all your 400 base ducat cost manufactories (time building pushes with the icon also so some development for your institution highway)

 

[makaramus]

Manpower is no big problem anymore because of the Streltskys (?). With these you can keep Manpower afloot. Admin is indeed a problem, that's why you continously vassal feed.
Concerning Sweden: Until Sweden looses almost all of Finland, they will continue to seek independence. In almos all of my games I had at least two independence wars where I could feed on them. Of course, if Denmark allies Poland from the start, you got a huge problem. You can't attack north or west until much later in the game, since together they will rip you apart. But since Denmark and Poland try to go for the same land (TO, LO) that almost never happens until later when they both feel threatened by you. And by then it should not be that big of a problem.

I saw many games sweden stayed loyal even without losing his land just because denmark annexed land around and annexed norway. %15 of my games denmark forms scandavia when I am not there -_-